Awesome! Here are my additional comments about the mystery chart.



Main Events


(a) Actions/Profession:

1. He did not pass an examination required to be a doctor. (1975)
2. He deceived his family and peers by telling them he was a qualified doctor, that he was a medical researcher/consultant for the WHO, and presumably succeeded for 18 years.
3. Seems to have had a good reputation for his fake profession.


(b) Money, Investments, Livelihood:

1. He persuaded his parents and relatives to give him money to invest. He used the money to fund his living instead.
2. In 1992 he was running out of money and had an overdraft.


(c) Marriage and Children:

1. Married his cousin. (19/9/1980)
2. Had two children. (14/5/1985, 2/2/1987)


(d) Extramarital affairs:

1. Had an ex-mistress who demanded a return of her investment.


(e) Crime:

1. He murdered his wife, two children and his parents. (8-11 Jan 1993)
2. He tried to murder his ex-mistress but he failed.
3. Arson: he burned his house.


(f) Attempted Suicide:

1. He set his house on fire, consumed expired sleeping pills and slept in the house. He was saved by firemen.


(g) Imprisonment:

1. In July 1993, he was sentenced to life imprisonment with no parole for 22 years.



Interpretation in Hindsight


Actions/Profession:

First of all, none of the planets on the angles are dignified. So we should examine the planets in the other houses. It turns out that none of the planets are dignified. This should have alerted me to say that this person, without a doubt, has no real profession or work, that is, no means of livelihood.

Maternus says,

?This too we should know, that an average chart is that which has a single planet on its own sign, located in an important house of the chart. The man who has a chart with two planets...is blessed with moderately good fortune. Fortunate and powerfully beyond the usual is the one who has three...while on the other hand, he who has no planet in its own sign will forever be unknown, of low-born family, and doomed to a miserable life.?

The kind of ?miserable? life he lives depends on the chart. Using Equal Houses, Mars is the most dominating planet on the angles. The dominated planets are all in the 10th, so they may have something to say about the native's actions/profession.

The Sun does not usually signify profession. In the 10th, it usually signifies either the honour or promotion that the native receives from his work, or it signifies the native's superiors. The native does seem to be well-regarded in his community before the truth came out.

Venus is out-of-sect, undignified and combust, so she cannot really produce anything for the native with regards to work. However, because she is in a dexter square aspect with the ascendant, she affects the character and if nothing else, makes him slightly charming.

Mercury is out-of-sect, in fall, and I'm not sure if it is combust (after reading about the issue, it's complicated so I have not made up my mind yet). Either way, it seems like a strong significator for Romand's actions/profession.

Valens says in Book 1, page 5 (Schmidt trans):

?Properly speaking, it [Mercury] makes temple-builders, brick-makers, sculptors, physicians, writers...?

In fact, Romand signed up for a medical course, but the dominating influence of Mars and Saturn led to the educational fiasco. It was reported that he failed his examination in the year 1975, when he was 21 years old. By annual profection, it is the 22nd year. Aquarius was the profected ascendant, and Saturn was in the 10th House. His malefic rays caused him to fail the exam. (Someone correct me if my use of profection is wrong.)

Nevertheless, he continued to disguise himself as a medical professional. Here I want to make the point that although Saturn naturally brings about deception (?feigned appearances?), Mars-Mercury combinations also produce liars and criminals, especially since Mars in square to Mercury here, and they are not well-placed.

Note the dodekatemorion of Mercury. It is in opposition to Mars and his dodekatemorion.

?3. Mars and Mercury in opposition indicate the greatest calamities. Either the natives will be apprehended for the crime of forging documents, or they are associated in evil knowledge with criminals, or they live a life of crime with wrong-doers and poisoners...
4. Possessed by greed, they may...or refuse to return goods entrusted to them. For any of these crimes they may be brought to judgment.?
[Liber Sextus, page 196]

Intriguingly, Mercury's dodekatemorion is in Gemini, where he is dignified by sign. This probably shows that he is secretly a very intellectual person, or that he is smart when it comes to secret matters. You would have to be quite smart in order to convince your family that you are a doctor, without actually being one, simply by reading medical documents. Romand also made the impression that he lived in Switzerland by using the reading materials he got from tourist pamphlets.


Money, Investments, Livelihood:

Mars afflicts Jupiter in the 2nd House by opposition, and also afflicts the 2nd House ruler (Mercury) strongly by square. Combine this with what I said above, and we get the picture that he swindled money from other people. He tricked people into letting him plunder them. His methods were Mercurial, but his actions were Martial.

The quotes I made in my previous post also shows a fluctuation in income, which turns out to be true. He got a lot of money from his relatives and (presumably) friends at first, and became rich. However, eventually he used up the money and fell into debt.


Marriage and Children:

I am too lazy to delineate this part. Someone else can do this.

...Is what I said, but I saw something interesting when doing a later part of this post. The Moon's dodekatemorion is in the 4th Sign. The Moon rules over the 3rd House, which Schmidt claims (in one of his old articles) to signify siblings, neighbours, the guest-host relationship, travelling...but also of relatives.

In the same article, he said that Valens mentioned the 4th House as signifying the wife. Now, intriguingly, using Maternus's equation for the Lot of the Wife, the Lot falls in Leo! So what this all means is that ?the native takes a relative as his wife.? The Moon symbolises the mother, so perhaps the cousin he married is from his mother's side.

As I noted below, the ruler of the 5th is in Mercury. Mercury is barren, according to Lilly, because he ?discerns nothing of himself.? Let us look at the signs Mercury is in. Virgo is the most barren (virgins do not give birth), Pisces is the second most fertile sign (the sign of Jupiter, exaltation of Venus), and Gemini (Mercury's dodek) is barren. Taurus (Lot of Children) is more fertile than barren (sign of Venus, exaltation of Moon).

This is a qualitative judgement, but I will say that the number of children will be below average, or a moderately small number of children.


Extramarital Affairs:

At first sight, there seems to be no indication of this. However, the dodekatemoria have come to save the day again. Venus's 12th Part is very closely conjoined to Mars, and she is also conjoined to Mars's 12th Part. The fact that only the dodekatemoria tell the story indicates that he was most likely successful in keeping his affair a secret from his wife and family.


Crime:

Murder of parents ? Mars, in the 8th sign (death) is opposite the Moon (mother) but the former is not in hard aspect with the Sun (father). Let us look at the house rulers. According to Maternus, parents is the 4th House. 4th House ruler is the Sun, and again, no hard aspect. Let us examine the dodekatemoria. Saturn himself is in the 7th House, and the 7th House signifies death, among other things. This Saturn dominates the Sun (parents). Furthermore, we have Saturn's dodek in close conjunction with Sun and Venus. Now we only need to find the link between the death of the parents and the native. The ascendant is ruled by Venus, and Venus is with this combination in the 10th. They are all in the terms of Mars, except for Venus, I think.

Therefore, we can delineate this as, ?death of the parents in the hands of the native through violent means.?

Okay, that sounds a bit made up. Haha.

Murder of wife and children ? Wife is the 7th House. Saturn is in the 7th sign and well-placed for disaster. Saturn is in the terms of Venus (the native). Saturn and Venus are often incompatible. From this, we can proclaim ?death of the wife at the hands of the native?. It should be noted that only the wife was killed with blunt trauma, while the rest of the victims were shot. Maybe Saturn makes people kill in a different way from Mars (which is more about cutting and burning).

Children is showed by the 5th House. This is ruled by Mercury in Pisces (bi-corporeal and fertile sign, so maybe that's why he had two children?), and it is in square with Mars. Mercury is in the terms of Venus (again we see the same pattern). ?Native killed his children through violent means.?

If we look at the dodekatemoria of Mercury, again we see that it is afflicted by being in opposition with Mars, Mars's dodek and Venus's dodek. Mercury's dodek in the terms of Saturn, once more associates it with death.

Arson ? Mars in the 8th in Saggitarius and Jupiter in the 2nd in opposition. Mars naturally signifies burns, but even more so when in a fiery sign. Jupiter is the natural significator of wealth, but even more so when in the 2nd House. Jupiter in the terms of Venus (again!). ?Burning of one's property.?

Lot of Possessions in Leo, Lot of Fortune in Leo. The Venus-Sun-Saturn in Mars's terms shows this destruction of one's property and home as well. In fact, that combination explains all the crimes.


Attempted Suicide:

That Venus was burned by the Sun's rays and conjoined to Saturn also shows this suicidal event. The fact that Aquarius is the 7th sign (death) from Fortune may also imply this. It is interesting how that combination is so prominent, in retrospect.

Why was he saved? Jupiter and the waxing Moon in trine to the 10th may have helped. Perhaps Mars being in sextile with Venus makes it so that only the house was destroyed, but the native survived. Or maybe the time lords during that time was not threatening to his life.

The fact that only Venus was not in the terms of Mars may also indicate that the native did not die a violent death.

Imprisonment:

One of the quotes from Maternus said that his crime led to his imprisonment.

Another way of seeing this (though this may sound superficial) is that Saturn, the Lord of Limitations and Constriction in Scorpio, a solid sign, is in hard aspect to all that signifies the native: Ascendant, Venus and Fortune.



Okay, that's it.

Much to look at here. Firstly Morin casts doubt on the idea that combustion is a big deal in natal . In book 18.2 he states " Even combust planets,however,clearly manifest their influence on the sublunar world" ref to book 16.3.3

Once again I will check but some authors suggest that the natural significators of trade are the inner planets but only when angular.i took Saturn to signify mastery here and in view of events would say his trade was not doctor but financial advisor.

Looking at CA page 265 eg Lilly insists that they aspect the moon partilly but hard to ignore them here and indeed he does allow aspect by moiety of orb (reading for mediety)only lastly does consider the tenth lord.

Lastly the close opposition to ascendant has much importance but his aspect to Venus and PF less so in my opinion at least

Roundabout the time of the birth of child one we seeJupiter directed to Venus and the second when Venus to NN but nothing in 1993

Can anyone give a quotation whether it is and who has in tradition teached to cast a chart with the planets in their dodecatemoria instead of their signs using the signs as if these were the dodecatemoria?

Or is my assumption correct that this is a modern technique?


Here are the positions of the planets in the dodecatemoria:

The Sun (22 08 aq) in Libra
The Moon (5 38 ge) in Leo
Mercury (9 57 pi) in Gemini
Venus (25 07 aq) in Sagittarius
Mars (00 53 sg) in Sagittarius
Jupiter (16 24 ge) in Sagittarius
Saturn (9 19 sc) in Aquarius
Node (22 33 cp) in Libra
MC (21 cp) in Virgo
AC (12 17 ta) in Virgo
[without guarantee]

i don't have the proper time to give this right now, but a couple of things regardless.

larxene - thanks! you have shared a lot and some here will really benefit and enjoy what you've shared. i am curious to know why you think mars is the most important, or strongest planet connecting to an angle. i think you said that somewhere in your comment, but i am going on memory from reading this last night.. i am curious because i see saturn as the most immediate planet connecting with an angle - the western angle..

2 - regarding johannes question - i am not sure i understand your question properly johannes, but last night i read a few pages from ben dykes most recent translation - Hephaistion of Thebes' Apotelesmatics: Book III: On Inceptions.. it is the first time i have seen in any of the translations he's done a fairly thorough breakdown of the 12 divisions for all the signs which you and larxene are both focused on so strongly, so both of you might enjoy reading this book if only to get further insight into how this system was used to help delineate a chart. it is my understanding that the use of this technique and the way larxene is applying it was common in hellenistic time and reading the passage last night seemed further proof of it.

matthew - interesting question on the issue of combustion. thanks for pointing out how morin may see this differently. i recall another poster pointing out something to the effect that mercury in aries combustion is unique in that the sun is exalted in aries and that it wasn't a bad thing essentially. this is coming from the works of mashallah apparently. it is a good conversation topic and might solicit some interesting discussion if you were to raise this in a separate thread. that is about as much as i know. it seems any planet that goes thru the process and gets on the other side of it is strengthened considerably.. this has more to do with planetary phase but of course pp is based on the planets cycle in relation to the sun. i suppose in the case of the inner planets - mercury and venus a good understanding of the inferior and superior conjunction and relationship to the sun is very helpful to know. i can't say that i completely understand it, but it seems combustion is a type of short hand to suggest the planet is weakened in any of this type of arrangement.

i actually try to make sense of this theory, but am not convinced of it. using it in horary would be a completely different matter, but using it to understand it's relevance in natal astrology it seems to me that many with a close sun/mercury connection display more mercurial tendencies and that mercury is strengthened instead of weakened. that has been my general observation on this. now whether it is even stronger in those who have it in a better planetary phase to the sun might excel even more in mercurial terms - greater objectivity being what i would associate with this - i can't say for sure. einstein who is sometimes singled out as being quite brilliant has mercury in a 10 degree conjunction to sun - but out of sign. it is also in a close conjunction to saturn which may be contrary to what we are told traditionally about the influence of saturn. perhaps brilliance is not just captured in the persons mercury position and again the moon must be factored into all of how a persons mind expresses itself.

@james_m:

I am mainly using Maternus's delineations, and my philosophy is that, in order to obtain the most consistent results possible, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. I try to imitate Maternus's methods as closely as possible, and then after examining the results, adjust the methods to increase the accuracy of the delineations.

Maternus described an Equal House system, but in his treatment of Albinus's chart, he did not mention the cusps, only the sign. This tells me that he uses one of two house systems: the Equal House or the Whole Sign House, or a combination of both.

Since I do not know for sure which system he used in practice in tandem with the many delineations he made, I am currently experimenting with both. Here in this chart, I used the Equal House for the most part, but for the Lots and 12th Parts it seems that the WSH system is very compatible with them.



@johannes:

I am not sure what you are asking; can you please rephrase your question?

If I understand correctly, your question stems from the fact that there is another method for calculating the 12th Part, which was mentioned in the Preface of Schmidt's translation of Valens's Book 1, if I am correct.

According to this method, only the sign of the 12th Part is mentioned; there is no calculation of degrees. The method is as follows:

1. Divide the sign a planet is in into 12 parts, each part containing 2.5 degrees.
2. The first part, from 0 degrees to 2.5 degrees, belongs to the sign that is being divided. So if it is Aquarius, the first part belongs to Aquarius. The following parts are distributed in zodiacal order. Hence, if the first is Aquarius, the second is Pisces, the third is Aries, and so on.
3. The part that the degree of the planet is in, that is the 12th Part of the planet.

For example, Romand's chart has Mars in 0 degrees 53 minutes. This is the first part of Saggitarius. The first part of Saggitarius belongs to Saggitarius itself. So Mars's 12th Part is in Saggitarius. This is true, using the method that Maternus uses (multiply the degrees of the planet by 12), it still ends up in ~11 Sag.

Another example. Venus is in 25 degrees Aquarius. This is the 11th Part. Therefore, Venus's 12th Part is in the 11th Sign from Aquarius: Saggitarius. By multiplication, it ends up in 1.5 degrees Saggitarius. The same result. You can check the rest of the planets; both methods should yield the same sign. (This may be why, like the Lots, the 12th Parts are easier to use with WSH, as sometimes only the sign of the 12th Part is considered.)

I can quote Maternus's method of calculation if you like.


Or are you asking me how I interpreted the 12th Part? That is harder to answer. Maternus claims that his sources said that the "whole essence" and "hidden parts" of the chart can be revealed via the dodekatemoria. In Liber Tertius, he talks about checking the house and terms the dodek of a planet is in, 1) to check the true strength of the planet, and 2) to discover the secrets of the chart.

So basically, the 12th Part adds to the dignities of the visible planet. I am not sure what "secrets of the chart" really means, but my inference is that we can delineate the part as if the planet is in that house/place/topic.

dr. farr, a respected member in the Astrology Weekly forums, who uses Paul's method of calculating the dodekatemoria, says that it is to be interpreted as if the planet is really in that degree, which is also what I implied from Maternus's statements.

I can give you citations on Maternus's statements if this is what you are asking for.



Re: Combustion

My personal interpretation of combustion at this moment (because Maternus only mentioned it very briefly) is that it harms the planet, but does not completely deprive the planet of its natural power. What I mean is that the planet is still capable of exerting its own unique influence on the other planets and the houses and lots it rules, but that it is hindered by the combustion in such a way that the things it produces may be unfavourable to the native.

Also, based on what I read in one of Deborah's posts, I agree that the power of the planets are weakened by combustion, but not so much because of the Sun's rays, rather because of planetary phase. Just as when the Moon waxes and wanes, her power fluctuates, so do the other planets.

I think it would be interesting to discuss this further in another thread. By the way, I have Mercury conjoined to the Sun (less than 8 degrees), and in the same sign.

hi larxene,
here is the quote from one of your posts that i am curious to great more understanding of your interpretation and how you arrive at this position. you mention mars as the most dominating planet on the angles. i don't see it that way, so i was hoping that you might explain your rationale here. fwiw i see saturn playing this role.

Larxene wrote: The kind of ?miserable? life he lives depends on the chart. Using Equal Houses, Mars is the most dominating planet on the angles. The dominated planets are all in the 10th, so they may have something to say about the native's actions/profession.

@james_m:

Via equal signs, the Ascendant starts from 12 degrees Taurus to 12 degrees Gemini. In the same way, the Descendant starts from 12 degrees Scorpio to 12 degrees Sagittarius. Hence, by this house system, Mars is in the 7th House. Since he is angular, and he is in a quartile to the 10th House (which contains all the other angular planets) from the right, he is the most dominating planet.

There is something else you are forgetting here, which is that Saturn is in sect. Planets in sect tend act favourably towards the native. While I can see how the deception was favourable to him, I cannot fathom the beneficence of the serial murder.

thanks larxene,

i am familiar with how equal houses system divides everything via the ascendant degree!! i understand the concept of a box as the same as a house in certain astrological minds - thus mars is in box 7, while saturn lands in box 6.. this type of thinking is very contrary to the way i use equal houses!!! to me the critical degree is the degree of the cusp - in this case 12 whatever.. saturn at 9 is in a 3 degree orb to the descendant or 7th house cusp and is in a much stronger position to act or express itself then mars which is in a different sign as well!

i don't want to quibble about house systems, or how each of us might apply the understanding of them differently, but to me - i needed to ask for more elaboration on your point of view as it didn't make sense to me! its true about the sect of mars verses saturn but it changes nothing in my view that saturn is the dominant planet here in terms of proximity to an angle. interestingly in the french couples research they found a higher number of doctors with saturn angular, as opposed to athletes who had mars more often then not angular. at any rate - thanks for sharing your way of interpreting the position of planets in relation to the angles thru the lens of equal houses here for me. cheers james

A brief tuppenceworth. Morin again I think says that when more than than one planet occupy a house then the one nearer the angle predominates.

I like whole-sign houses but for power I do look at the real asc and MC

As for the French couple that opens a can of worms in the tradition