Just looking at tonight's Madrid v Chelsea chart, J.Lee Lehmam & Brady say if the Asc is 3' 30 degrees or less, then take the previous sign as First House ruler.

I don't know what they have been smoking and I don't want to know.

Hello everyone

Being a season ticket holder at The Arsenal, I rarely cast charts for football matches as my 'all things un-Arsenal bias' normally fogs up my objective opinion, especially when they involve teams like FC Chelsea 2003. However, i'm into horse racing and put much emphasis on the name.

Atletico Madrid are known as The Mattress Makers - Venus

And among the more polite nicknames that i can post here for FC Chelsea 2003 are The Pensioners - Saturn

Venus is L7 and Saturn is in the 1st - however, Chelsea's crest is a Lion and the good guys, in this game, is a Bear - Saturn.

My intuitive guess is that Chelsea will be lucky ti still be in the game - 3-2.

Hi guys,

First of all, thanks to Konrad for answering the question regarding the superior position instead of me. I believe that also the meaning of the 10th house is derived from the meaning of domination as shortly described by Konrad.

John, I am not sure whether you have all the tables for UK. If not just let me know. We shall see how the teams signified by Moon will dominate the teams signified by Jupiter. Anyway, they have an edge because of rulership. I hope that I will be able to provide predictions. Astrological reasoning will follow.

It's too late but today we have the game Atletico Madrid (Mars, whoever wish can receive a table for Spain) versus Chelsea (Jupiter). It is a day chart, so Jupiter is in a superior position and it shall have advantage. According to the odds, Atletico Madrid is a favourite here. I expect a draw, but it is not a fair prediction because I looked at the chart after the first half and when I am writing the notes it is 0:0 and the draw is priced 1:80 by bet365.

Andrew, thank you for the information, regarding Fredrikstad. The emblem is certainly ruled by Leo. I think that we should monitor the Sun as an alternative significator for Fredrikstad. I am not sure whether there is a game played by Fredrikstad with Leo ASC and angular Sun. Let's see if there is a one, Fredrikstad should win.
I love such commentaries, they help us to find a relevant significator.

I understand that my current method to choose significators agreeably to the colours is not an ideal one. Therefore I have inserted in the tables I have columns like "city rulership" and "nicknames" . But it is not an easy task to find reliable significators. For it I need time and more examples.

It's too late but today we have the game Atletico Madrid (Mars, whoever wish can receive a table for Spain) versus Chelsea (Jupiter). It is a day chart, so Jupiter is in a superior position and it shall have advantage. According to the odds, Atletico Madrid is a favourite here. I expect a draw, but it is not a fair prediction because I looked at the chart after the first half and when I am writing the notes it is 0:0 and the draw is priced 1:80 by bet365.

I think it is fair to pass judgement and evaluate a game before it is played, and also present chart details after it is played to examine what and what did not work. In the same sense a game may be commented or judgement may be 'balanced' during play, but a comment into the 2nd half is not 'a prediction', but rather a combination of observations, as you said. Although your understanding of the game could still, and probably was played, or should have been played, in the Live market. Even having made such an observation or consideration, there are still many games that are decided suddenly and quite unexpectedly into extra play, and sometimes in the last kick of the match - so there is always a game on until the ref blows the whistle.

What I have problem understanding is where things are coming from. Where is Atletico Madrid 'Mars' and where is Chelsea 'Jupiter'? Is this according to the match chart, or according to a list of team rulerships that is a product of your own work and studies? Not that this neccesarily is wrong because I have seen some of the time and effort that you have put into producing these charts. But it would be useful to know where things are coming from and whether this was a product of your own judgement. What I also have difficulty in understanding in this game, based upon the technique you refered to, is where did the draw come from?

Personally, I was looking for a home win in this game before it started, but there were contradictions. The draw-factor in the chart, according to my opinion, was the Moon in the 4th and on the antiscia of Saturn, lord of the 4th. Seeing that 0-0 was the end result, Fortuna on the MC gave nothing. In my opinion this also 'clips' (eclipses) Atletico Madrid's chances in the return match, since the balance of the 1st match with the eclipse on the Ascendent pushes the overall advantage toward Chelsea.

The Ascendant in this game was 0SC21. So this 0-0 game should be compared with the two games played in the Championship at 20.00 BST between Bolton - Leicester 0-1 with Asc 29LI35, and Reading - Middlesbrough 2-0 with Asc 1SC20. The charts are very similar but the results go in different directions and there is no draw. This takes the discussion back to the starting point for examining a game; whether it should be considered according to home team meeting away team, or favourite up against the underdog? Are there other ways of approaching a game before judgement? Janis appears to have a suggestion, in which case what are the rules and how do we discern which method to take?

Andrew Bevan wrote:What I have problem understanding is where things are coming from. Where is Atletico Madrid 'Mars' and where is Chelsea 'Jupiter'?

My understanding is that the significators come primarily from the colours associated with the team. Chelsea are blue, and so Jupiter. A. Madrid red, so Mars. A team that has white kit would be signified by the Moon. Using these significators helps to solve the problem of matches played at the same time.

GB wrote:

My understanding is that the significators come primarily from the colours associated with the team. Chelsea are blue, and so Jupiter. A. Madrid red, so Mars. A team that has white kit would be signified by the Moon. Using these significators helps to solve the problem of matches played at the same time.

Exactly, it is the basic idea. However, colours alone do not solve the problem. There are many others factors to be considered. I have noticed that in some cases nicknames bear more weight than colours, sometimes the signs and planets ruling the cities are very important.

As regards Chelsea I am confident that their primary ruler is Jupiter. As a secondary ruler I always look at the condition of the Moon (currently also dispositor of Jupiter). I feel confident that Chelsea is associated with Cancer. Atletico Madrid appears to be Mars (perhaps, also ruled by Aries).

Andrew wrote:

Even having made such an observation or consideration, there are still many games that are decided suddenly and quite unexpectedly into extra play, and sometimes in the last kick of the match - so there is always a game on until the ref blows the whistle.

We are dealing with probabilities, and even if you correctly judge the chart you never 100% know how the game will end. I believe that all betters have faced the frustrating truth that good winning bets used to slip out of the hands in extra time or even in the last kick of the game.

What I also have difficulty in understanding in this game, based upon the technique you referred to, is where did the draw come from?

If there is a favourite and an underdog we do not need to find a testimony that the favourite will win, we instead should find a testimony that it won't.

If we strictly apply the rules I have been arguing here, Chelsea should have won. But as you know whatever rules we apply, astrology alone does not guarantee correct predictions. We should put into the basket such things as common sense, relative strength of teams (as suggested by odds), motivation (financial and other), form, head-to-head statistics, etc. Then we should balance all this stuff against the testimonies we see in the chart.

If I see that a chart favours the underdog, it does not mean that the underdog would win. More often than not underdog just scores and still loses the game, or the game ends draw rather than win. There is an overwhelming statistical difference that afflicted charts tend to end draw rather than underdogs' wins. Here I mean such underdogs which are priced at 5.00 and longer odds.

I like you did not see a draw but I did not believe that Chelsea (priced at 6.00) would win. So I just moderated my opinion.

When I made predictions for the entire Championship, you should notice that I have made quite correct considerations. The games ended just as considerations suggested. But I was wrong at a final stage of judgment. I just tried to balance what was suggested by the charts and what I thought it should be according to my knowledge about relative strength of teams.

The problem is not the rules and even insufficient knowledge but human inability (I say a heavenly gift) to balance it all and make a judgment in advance.

The Ascendant in this game was 0SC21. So this 0-0 game should be compared with the two games played in the Championship at 20.00 BST between Bolton - Leicester 0-1 with Asc 29LI35, and Reading - Middlesbrough 2-0 with Asc 1SC20. The charts are very similar but the results go in different directions and there is no draw.

We all know that similar charts produce different results. But the charts referred to are not similar ones. In the table for Championship (which I sent to you yesterday) you should find that Bolton is Moon and Leicester is Jupiter. In the chart you see that Jupiter is exalted and in a whole-sign stake of ASC. Moon was a whole - sign trine to ASC. According to the rules, stakes are favoured to succedents. Apart from any astrological considerations, Leicester was a favourite. Bolton had no motivation to fight (they cannot qualify for playoffs, nor they face the threat of relegation).

Reading - Middlesbrough. According to the rules, it should have ended draw. And it probably would, if the game were played in the begging or the middle of the season or if there were no particular motivation to fight. The game was a must-win for Reading to keep a place in playoffs.

Your last post contains a lot of good points, Janis. I will have to read it several times, think it through and come back to discussing it when I am not so pressed for time. Good entry!

Champions League, semifinal, first leg

Madrid Real - Bayern Munich, odds 2.30 3.75 3.10

The game is played at Bernabeu, coordinates 40 N 27 11, 003 W 41 18

As regards statistics, Real must feel confident after beating their archrival Barcelona in the final of Copa del Rey. Munich has never won in Bernabeu, the last game (the second leg of the semifinal of 2012) ended 2:2.

As regards significators, I will assign Moon to Real and Mars to Buyern.

The chart has 01SC 06 rising, MC 06LE 53, POF 20LE22, Moon 22AQ 47. Mars rules the hour. According to the traditional understanding, the chart is radical. But there is always a fly in the ointment, if a malefic rules the hour in particular if it is aversion to the rising sign.

The Moon has just separated from her dexter squre with retrograde Saturn, L4 and her dispositor, and from opposition with POF. The Moon is angular in the chart so according to the rules it should be favoured to Mars which is aversion to the rising sign which he rules. Both planets in the same triplicity enhances the likelihood of draw but considering the angular position of the Moon, I would give an edge to the Moon.

On the other hand, Mars, the significator of Buyern and L1, is partile square exalted Jupiter, partile opposition Uranus and partile square Pluto. Had Buyern been an underdog priced at 10 or longer odds, I would back it without hesitation and would ignore the more stronger position of the Moon. But unfortunately it is not. I cannot tell you in advance what we should expect from so heavily squared Mars.

All considered, I am inclined to back the home. I wonder whether it is worth picking draw first half/Real Madrid wins the game at odds 6.00 considering that Mars, ruler of hour, is retrograde, aversion the rising sign and the Moon is VOC, unless we take into consideration her opposition with antisca of the Sun, dispositor of POF, at 26LE49.

Well, I tried to modified the judgement but went astray.

It was a chart which allowed to predict the scoreline. The game ended 1:0 as the chart suggested. Why I was wrong with the prediction that the first half would end draw and Real would win the game is that I paid too much attention on the condition of the Moon (VOC) and the retrogradeness and aversion of Mars, the ruler of hour and rising sign but I failed to include in my judgment that the Sun, dispositor of POF, was setting. The goal was scored when the Sun crossed the Western horizon. As I said, the testimony for Real was the position of the Moon (their significator) in a whole - sign stake of ASC and the application by opposition to antisca of the Sun, dispositor of POF.

Some of the recent posts by Janis have set me thinking. He has reminded us of all the different factors we should be taking into account and I am wondering if we are sometimes too simplistic in our analysis. For example, we might see the Lord of the Hour in the first house and take this as helping the home team (or favourite?), but we do not stop to consider which planet is the LHr.

Similarly, we often consider radicality where the LHr and the Lord of the Ascendant are the same planet as producing less draws and favouring the home/favourite team. So I though it would be worthwhile looking at charts that were radical in this way and break them down by which planet was LHr/L1. So, I have gone through my large collection of charts to test it out.

LHr = L1 = Moon, Sun or Jupiter there is is very significant reduction in the number of draws: about 10% draws rather than the average of 25%. There is a corresponding increase in favourite wins.

LHr = L1 = Venus, Mars and Saturn had no effect on the proportion of draws, or favourite wins, but there was a slight decrease in the proportion of home wins.

LHr = L1 = Mercury was very variable (typical of Mercury). There seemed to be some variation depending on sign, but I have insufficient data to be sure.

Hope this proves useful.

GB wrote:Some of the recent posts by Janis have set me thinking. He has reminded us of all the different factors we should be taking into account and I am wondering if we are sometimes too simplistic in our analysis. For example, we might see the Lord of the Hour in the first house and take this as helping the home team (or favourite?), but we do not stop to consider which planet is the LHr.

Similarly, we often consider radicality where the LHr and the Lord of the Ascendant are the same planet as producing less draws and favouring the home/favourite team. So I though it would be worthwhile looking at charts that were radical in this way and break them down by which planet was LHr/L1. So, I have gone through my large collection of charts to test it out.

LHr = L1 = Moon, Sun or Jupiter there is is very significant reduction in the number of draws: about 10% draws rather than the average of 25%. There is a corresponding increase in favourite wins.

LHr = L1 = Venus, Mars and Saturn had no effect on the proportion of draws, or favourite wins, but there was a slight decrease in the proportion of home wins.

LHr = L1 = Mercury was very variable (typical of Mercury). There seemed to be some variation depending on sign, but I have insufficient data to be sure.

Hope this proves useful.

GB, I have about 6000 games from 2010/2011 and from January til now this year all timed to around +/- 20 seconds of the precise start time in Solar Fire format if you would like them.