Hi,
Would someone know of a great link where I can understand how to read an event chart? Really appreciate it. (Book recommendations would also be appreciated!!)

Secondly, would the moment that intent is indicated for a concrete action that will be taken - the success or failure of which would have major consequences for the parties involved - constitute the correct data for an event chart?

Note: The action has not been taken yet, but the *decision* has been made regarding what action is to be taken. This decision was arrived after much, much contemplation; it is a major decision that could have major ramifications for better or for worse.

Thanks to all.
- Taurus7 -

Some people read it like an horary (I have some objections) and some read it in combination with the natal chart.
Would you elaborate the nature of this action ?

Yuzuru

I think I would either set an event chart for the actual event that is to take place or do a horary...

Secondly, would the moment that intent is indicated for a concrete action that will be taken - the success or failure of which would have major consequences for the parties involved - constitute the correct data for an event chart?

An event chart is cast for the beginning of the event, not the time of its intent. So if I decide to sue X for slander, the event chart would be set for the court time and date, not for the moment I decided to file suit. In other words if I want to know the outcome of the court case, I will set the chart for the time of the beginning of the trial.

To use a sports example, the event chart for the Sper Bowl is set for the opening kickoff not the time when it is determined which teams will play in it.

They are read pretty much like horaries.

Tom

Thank's Tom. This issue of intent and event has bothered me too.

However what happens if you are trying to elect a time for something that has two or three stages. Let's give a sports example too because it if simpler to explain:-

A challenges B C and D to a tennis competition. There is usually not much to chose between them in terms of standard. They all agree to play but then have to fix times between them. B gets to (by astrological analysis of course) choose the time he plays A but not the time C and D play or the time of the final.

Does this mean that B's initial elected event time determines only the outcome of the first game or does it have an impact on the performance of the overall competition? And if it doesn't impact the overall competition is the election pointless? And does this suggest a fated element where B is constrained by elements within his own birthchart that prevent him determining the final outcome?

Sorry if that sounds a bit complicated ( or if it ought to be posted under the philosophy section!) but I keep coming across this issue and would be really interested in other people's views on this "sequence of dependent events" problem.

Thanks

Amelia

Event charts seem closely related to electional charts. Electional charts: when to initiate an action. Event charts: the chart for an event which has been initiated or has ocurred.

An event chart is cast for the beginning of the event, not the time of its intent. So if I decide to sue X for slander, the event chart would be set for the court time and date, not for the moment I decided to file suit. In other words if I want to know the outcome of the court case, I will set the chart for the time of the beginning of the trial.

How about this?: The person has the intent to file suit, progresses beyond the stage of mere intention and decides to consult a lawyer. The actual suit event hasn?t begun yet. The person does consult the lawyer, feels good about the lawyer and the lawyer feels good about the case. They make the decision to file suit.

Couldn?t that be the initiation of the actual event? The person consults the lawyer and their agreement to pursue the case then puts the wheels into action as the lawyer prepares the case. The court date comes after much preparation. If the person tells the lawyer ?I want you to represent me? and the lawyer says ?I will take the case? ? isn?t that more of an event chart for the entire suit event from start to finish?

It?s easy to use court dates because they are public record and give us a definite date. We usually have no idea when the agreement to sue was made and the work was begun. In other words: We perhaps use court dates out of convenience.

How about this?: The person has the intent to file suit, progresses beyond the stage of mere intention and decides to consult a lawyer. The actual suit event hasn?t begun yet. The person does consult the lawyer, feels good about the lawyer and the lawyer feels good about the case. They make the decision to file suit.

Believe it or not I actually thought about this before I posted. A lawsuit does provide us with several potential charts, but the filing of papers is only one part of it. If we go to an attorney and he feels good about proceeding the chart isn't going to show us a victor because the opponent and the judge and/or jury are not involved at this point. Court cases like sports events aren't always won by the stongest side. Upsets do ocur on the field of play and corrupt judges and stupid juries are all too common. While the timing of the filing of hte papers and decision to go to court must be valid for something, I don't think they are valid to determine the outcome of a trial that a) involves others and b) hasn't had a time set yet. But the idea is intriguing.

So what about elections? Well yes, we can file suit at a predetermiined time (particularly if our lawyer is an astrolgoer), but a good election also involves the birth chart and then we are out of the realm of the event chart. All these things do seem to overlap.

For the sports question, if B elects a time to play and play begins then, the event chart and the elected chart are one and the same. If the chart is elected for victory, then victory should occur. Unlike a lawsuit, we can agree upon a time and see that it is carried out. The law's delays make determining a court case at our convenience impossible.

Tom

If the person tells the lawyer ?I want you to represent me? and the lawyer says ?I will take the case? ? isn?t that more of an event chart for the entire suit event from start to finish?

Tom,
I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what your conclusion was about the above situation. To take the example another way, if the lawyer tells a person "I think this is the course we should take, and we should file a motion to the judge" and the person says "OK, let's do it", would that moment not be the event chart for the probable course that the case would take?
In fact, can an electional be done at all for the time that a court case starts? The date and time for the case is determined by the courts or outside scheduling authority. The only thing that can be in the person's control would be the time that the motion is filed.

I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what your conclusion was about the above situation. To take the example another way, if the lawyer tells a person "I think this is the course we should take, and we should file a motion to the judge" and the person says "OK, let's do it", would that moment not be the event chart for the probable course that the case would take?

I don't think so. The "event" is the trial, so the beginning of the trial would be the beginning of the event. The time the papers are filed might indicate something about that part of the prcedure. This is not the best way to understand the question as trials have multiple layers. There are filing of the papers, counter filings by the opponent (another chart), depositions on both sides (each one have a beginning), pre-trial motions, postponments etc. But once the trial starts that gives us something to work with.

In fact, can an electional be done at all for the time that a court case starts?

You can try. The court determines when a particular trial takes place The litigants have no say in the amtter. So unless one of the litigants has the authority to order the court to set the time when he or she will appear, an election for a trial date is senseless. However, electig the time to file may well result in a favorable court time and date. .
The best thing to do in a case like this is to elect the time for filing, and if the Uiverse is willing all the other events will be favorable. Any good election requires the use of the birth chart though.

Let's lose the courts. Let's look at a wedding. The wedding is the event chart not the beginning of the engagement.

Hope this helps.

Tom

would that moment not be the event chart for the probable course that the case would take?

I don't think so.

Tom,
I understand where you're coming from. But it occured to me that while that moment may not be the event chart for the probable course of future events - if it was a horary, done at that moment, it would be - do you agree?
So if a chart was cast for that moment, was it meant to be a horary? ....This could get really confusing....
In fact, how would you differentiate an event chart from a horary. A horary is a question asked in a moment of time. An event chart is the chart for a moment in time that an event is started. But the underlying motive is the same; what will be the probable outcome of a situation or question? So can the two be considered interchangeable?

My apologies if I'm making no sense.....(...grin..)

An event chart is the chart for a moment in time that an event is started. But the underlying motive is the same; what will be the probable outcome of a situation or question?

Yes

So can the two be considered interchangeable?

No, at least not in most cases. The prospective bride has an election done and she picks Saturday, Dec 24 at 4:00 PM for her wedding. In this case the elected chart and the event chart are one and the same. If, just before saying "I do" she looks at her maid of honor a famous astrologer in her own right, and whispers, "Will this marriage work out?" the election, the event, and the horary are all the same. But life isn't like that.

More likely it's like this. Our bride asks the horary, "Will I be happy if I marry Tom?" And the answer is, "Yes you will experience constant bliss." Then she says, "Oh good, I'd like to get married as soon as possible before he changes his mind, how does next Saturday at 4:00 pm look?" The astrologer says, "That date and time are perfect with your chart. Go for it." So she does (and as is true of brides everywhere, she ignores Tom's chart). When the moment comes to say "I do" the clock strikes four and the event and election are the same, but the horary is different..

But let's back up and the astrologer says, "Oh no, do not marry him at 4:00 pm on Saturday, but the following Friday is better. However she can't get the church on Friday so she settles for the following Saturday, well the best possible time (the election) will be different (and of no use since nothing happened on that date) from the horary, which is different from the event.

They are interpreted in a similar fashion, but they are different charts. Does this help?

Tom

an event is anything that happen in the world.... it can be the birth of a person, the foundation of a city, an animal being born, etc... for it to be meaningful for prediction, the event has to connect with the stars, meaning:
it is important in some sense
is not a routine issue
has some degree of free will

for example, try to set an chart for the next time you brush your teeth, and you will be terrified at the look of the lord of 8th and 6th afflicting the ruler of the asc... but believe me you are not going to die... matter is blissfully dull and don?t respond to the stars so easily... if it did, the airplanes wouldn?t keep themselves in the air.

so, the time you says "I do" is important and can be change, so this is the important. But I agree that all the "I do" that came before (the day you first met, the day he proposed, etc) may all in a way related, but we just don?t know.

an horary is an magical act, between querent and astrologer. It is not the birth of a question, because question?s are not really born. It is not the event chart, because you can?t do an horary about every question in the world. ("Oh, last night David Letterman ask Brad pitt if he is going to marry again, let me do an horary, as if he were the querent"). It is an relationship between two people and the stars. so hoaries are very different from event charts.

For example, you can do an event chart for every game in the world cup, you can?t do so many horaries and hope to get any answer.

Yuzuru