I did something I haven?t done before, and that?s a chart based on a news item on TV. There are 13 coal miners trapped underground in the nearby state of West Virginia. I saw an interview with one of the relatives and when I heard her pain and doubt about the outcome, I asked the question. The time of the chart is January 2, 2006, 5:09 PM EST, in Falls Church, VA, 077?W10', 38?N53'. The chart is radical as the hour of Venus matches the ASC.

Since I am not involved in the question, I?ll use the ASC and it?s ruler for the trapped miners. So they are shown by the Moon in the 8th house. Already that doesn?t look so good. The Moon is in Aquarius, with dignity only by face. Based on that alone they are in bad shape, but not hopeless. Their dispositor is Saturn.

The Moon?s past aspects started out with an opposition to Saturn, followed by a square with Mars. They say that an explosion caused them to be entrapped. Despite the association of Mars with explosions, I suspect that the cause of the disaster is shown by the opposition with Saturn because of the timing. The Moon was opposite Saturn 11? 15? ago. The cave in happened 6:30 AM, or about 11 ? hours before the chart was done. This is just speculation but perhaps the square with Mars shows a secondary incident after the cave in, such as a fire or another explosion. This was followed by a square with Jupiter. Jupiter rules the 6th, 9th and 10th houses. The only association that I can come up with is if we use Jupiter as the 10th house ruler, the company that the miners work for. Maybe that shows that the company?s response wasn?t as good as it should be to the cave in.

Did the miners survive the initial cave in? I?d have to say no. Though the lord of the 8th house Saturn receives the Moon, thus conferring on them some level of protection, the aspect is by opposition and the Moon is located in the 8th house. Taken together, that?s a lot to overcome. And even if they did survive the initial cave in, that next aspect by square to Mars looks really bad too. This looks like two problems, an initial cave in followed by a fire.

The Moon?s only applying contact is a sextile with Mercury. Mercury rules the 3rd, 4th and 12th houses. I suspect that Mercury shows the rescue team, as Mercury?s dispositor is Jupiter, and above I related Jupiter to the mining company. Also the 3rd house shows co-workers. So if Mercury is the rescue team, then they reach the trapped men in about 7 ? hours, or around 11:30 PM tonight, based on how the Moon reaches that sextile with Mercury in 7? 29?. Mercury could also very well represent the mine itself as the 4th house ruler, or a hopeless situation as the ruler of the 12th house. Either way, Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius.

I hope that I am wrong, and as I have never done a chart like this I could very well be. Does anyone else have any insights?

Hi Mark,

I haven't had a look at this chart yet but I will get to it. Personally, I'm not all that comfortable with asking horaries of this nature and will always prefer to look at an event chart under these circumstances. Coincidentally, we had a similar situation here in Australia yesterday with three miners trapped underground in Tasmania. Fortunately, they were rescued alive and well after a few hours. I hope that the miners in West Virginia are also that fortunate.

The reason I prefer to look at an event chart with these situations is that there is a definite chart that resonates well with the situation. With something such as a terrible accident like this, there is a moment in time that creates the chart and it is a chart that will be infused with the cosmic energy (for want of a better phrase) of that particular moment in time. The chart should clearly indicate the fate of these miners. I am not suggesting that your horary question was not valid or that it will not give the answer. But I'm not sure that it will give as clear an answer as the event chart. As much as we might genuinely care about what happens to these people, we are not directly involved. Horary experts such as Bonattus and Lilly continually enforce the need for a strong connection to the question being asked. An event chart such as this eliminates this need because the moment has already been created independent of this. Horary charts are such personal things and are best read by the person asking the question. Event charts are removed from this and are not so personal although each astrologer will bring their own personal understanding to the chart.

Just saw that the miners have been rescued. That's good news.

Wow! Im certainly glad to have read Sue's comment because being from a mining town my heart was hurting:(

From the comments that have been made as well, did you catch a better time that could be used as an event chart? Something I could take to study with?

I just heard that the report that the miners were found alive was a mistake and that only one has survived. This is a horrible mistake and I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for the families who first heard they were alive only to find that they had died. This would have to be worse than hearing the first time that they were dead. I wonder if this is shown in the chart somewhere. I don't have an accurate time for the event other than, as Mark says, somewhere between 6am and 6:30am. It doesn't make a lot of difference and 6:15 is probably close enough. This puts the ascendant at 21 deg Sagittarius with Pluto on the ascendant at 24 degs. Saturn is in the 8th house. Saturn is the traditional ruler of miners and Lilly puts mines themselves in the 4th house. This house is ruled by Mars, placed in the 5th house and, like Saturn, in its detriment. Mercury is also in its detriment, which may account for the misinformation. I haven't had a proper look yet but these are the things I immediately noticed.

Well, the chart came to me at the time, so I used the time that the idea struck me. I also was taking the lead from others on this forum who've seen a headline about a missing person and did a chart for the time they read about the story, and didn't use the "last seen" time. I have never seen anyone mention that objection before, so I don't see why it should be brought up now.

Looking back at my chart I think I had its grim details pretty clearly. It does seem that there were two incidents, the fist being the initial accident that sealed their fate (Moon opposite Saturn) and the a second one that actually killed them (Moon sqaure Mars). My timing was off in showing recovery happening on Monday night though.

Because the details are still not in, we don't know the cause of death but all all indications are that it is likely to be caused by carbon dioxide or some other poisonous gas. I can't see how Mars in Taurus can specifically be gas. I'd see Mars more as fire, a puncture wound by metal, cuts, or an explosion. Maybe it's not that specific, and Mars is to be taken just as something that is dangerous.

I do wonder about Neptune sitting their in the 8th house as well. As I followed the story and as more details became known about poison gas, I began to wonder whether Neptune in the 8th could represent that.

Or perhaps that Neptune could also represent the false rumors surrounding the end of the search.

I?m critical of the use of horary. We go through our daily lives: we put in our time at the workplace, chat on the phone with friends, cook our meals, etc. Then our attention turns to astrology and we decide to ask a question and draw up a horary chart for a major event which has gripped the collective. That?s the important point: we turn our attention to it when we get around to it. Now, in our quiet time, we decide to become a player on the world scene by predicting the outcome for such a large event. Our attention is on it, therefore we consider ourselves the proper instrument for prediction. All it takes is one phone call from a friend who says ?Let?s head down to the pub? and the predicted outcome for the event is put off for a later time.

Stick with the event chart. The event happened. It has its own chart and doesn?t need the attention of a horary astrologer whose fickle mind may or may not ask the question at the right time or even have enough interest to ask at all. The event doesn?t need us. What a blow to the ego!

There are some people - very few - who may be attuned to the collective atmosphere. They are intuitive, psychic. They could be the right ones to use horary for such purposes. They may be in the middle of a busy day at work and the thought hits them to use horary. They note the time and draw up the chart when they have the chance. They are rare birds. The trap lies in considering ourselves to be one of them.

What a horrible tragedy... my heart goes out to the miners' families... but Mark's analysis seems to be exactly on point.

Neptune does represent gasses as well as "deception, delusion or fraud" according to Barbara Watters. She also says that Mars rules accidents and Saturn rules "smothering, strangulation, choking, coal mines and miners."

Well, the chart came to me at the time, so I used the time that the idea struck me. I also was taking the lead from others on this forum who've seen a headline about a missing person and did a chart for the time they read about the story, and didn't use the "last seen" time. I have never seen anyone mention that objection before, so I don't see why it should be brought up now.

This objection is continually being raised among astrologers. In fact, it has been raised a number of times over the life of this forum with several conversations about whether it is appropriate to ask a horary under these circumstances. I don?t think you will find too many astrologers who will ask a horary question like this about a news item. From memory, when we have looked at missing persons charts where there is no connection to the person involved, we have generally looked at a chart for the time of last sighting. You said yourself that your horary was based on a news item. It makes no sense at all to ask a horary about a news item for the time of hearing the news. All this is really is an event chart for the hearing of the news. It is not tied into the event itself, only the hearing of the event. Why create a new chart where one already exists? There is no mistaking the event chart. It is universally accepted that this event occurred at 6:30am (or very close to it). Therefore, this chart is of universal significance. The horary chart only exists because you created it at a time that was personally significant for you and you have no connection to the event other than being generally concerned as most people were. Third party horaries can be flawed at the best of times but this goes beyond third party. Doing horaries in this way goes against the major considerations of Bonatus.

It makes no sense at all to ask a horary about a news item for the time of hearing the news. All this is really is an event chart for the hearing of the news. It is not tied into the event itself, only the hearing of the event.

But isn't this what Lilly did when he heard the news that his fish were stolen? The chart was cast for the moment he heard the news and it was a horary. He could not, of course, cast an event chart, but he did cast the chart for the moment he heard about the theft. It was not tied to the event.

Tom