Deb said:

One chart I set great store by in 1990 concerned the prospect of Britain going to war with Iraq. I submitted it as a ?prediction? to gain my QHP qualification. I felt connected to the question, it was judged well and was very reflective of events as they later unfolded. But this question was rejected on the grounds that a similar question had already been asked by another astrologer who judged there would be no war. I passed on my second submission of a personal horary ? I think it concerned a property issue. I didn?t feel it was anywhere near as insightful or meaningful as the war chart that was rejected out of hand. If I had been asked, I wouldn?t have cared how many other astrologers were asking similar questions, or whether there were more relevant event charts; that was the chart that spoke to me and the only one from which I felt enough confidence and commitment to want to form a judgement.

I don?t see this as along the same lines as asking about the trapped coal miners or who will win the election, both of which have event charts attached. You were asking about something that may or may not eventuate. The only way you could evaluate this situation that you were genuinely concerned about was through horary. Okay, so you couldn?t affect the outcome and maybe others had already asked the question. I am not arguing that we should never use horary for these sorts of situations but that if there is already a valid event chart, we should go with that. In your case, there was no valid event chart and you were genuinely concerned as most people were at that point, and, as it turned out, rightly so. I don't see anything wrong with using horary under these circumstances.

Sue said:

My understanding is that horary is primarily used as a tool for guidance that allows us to move forward. It helps us to make important decisions or to understand our situation. It is a wonderful tool that allows us to reflect and guide us. What is the point of a horary that allows no chance for any of this when an event chart will give us the answer we are looking for?

Deb said:

That is a good definition of horary but surely it applies to all aspects of judicial astrology, not just horary. In most cases I agree it is better to use the event chart for analysis, but don?t you think it is interesting that no one raises the moral or ethical implications of analysing event charts about issues that don?t personally concern them? This happens all the time. It seems to me that it is either appropriate to offer personal observations on a mundane situation using astrology, or it?s not. The event chart is of more general interest of course, but I wouldn?t like to see horary excluded as offering an astrologer the potential to explore perspectives on a mundane event. At least not on the grounds that the astrologer doesn?t have the right to make a symbolic exploration of things that go on in the world around them. That is, at least not whilst books of event-chart analysis such as ?Civilization under Attack? escape question.

Yes, this is a valid point. Of course each form of astrology deserves due respect and consideration. But I haven?t actually raised any moral or ethical objections about doing horaries about events. I don?t really have any. It is more of an objection about the practical appropriateness of it. I don't think there are moral and ethical concerns about asking a horary about events that don't concern us. These events concern us all on some level. I was thinking more on a practical level of how much a person can be tied as an individual to these charts. And don?t even start me on that book. How much genuine reflection could there have been when the book was in the shops practically before the towers came down? I see this as nothing more than an exercise in who can give the cleverest interpretation of what happened.

I see mundane astrology as so much more than general interest. My objection about horaries on events has nothing to do with whether it is morally appropriate or not but rather whether this is the best method. I see nothing wrong with using astrology in an attempt to make a symbolic exploration of the events around us. This is perhaps the most useful things about astrology ? that it allows us to understand the world we live in. It is just that I do not see an individual horary as the best way to understand events of this nature.

The reason I am so interested in mundane astrology is that I like to explore the potential of being able to use mundane astrology in a way that contributes to the future in the same way that horary does. I do not really believe that event charts should be used in isolation. Surely a study of earthquake charts or train crash charts, for example, can reveal a pattern that may be useful in the prediction of these events. I believe that event charts have a similar definition to the one I gave above for horary. That is, it is a tool that allows us to reflect and guide us, giving us the potential to make changes. However, they are still used for different purposes and require different considerations. This generally requires that we look at the event chart as part of a collective. Fortunately, there are not too many mining accidents, but there was one in Australia only a day after the one in the US. The Australian miners escaped unharmed a few hours later. So what is it about the two charts (both of which had Mars on the 4th house cusp), where two different results were achieved? Or what is it about the two charts that were similar and may be seen in the charts of past mining accidents? The fascinating work by Richard Nolle is an example of the great potential of understanding past event charts so that they may be useful for the future. Wouldn?t it be wonderful if mundane astrology was more than an academic exercise and could be used to save lives? The biggest barrier though is to get non astrologers to take notice, as Dennis Elwell found out when he contacted the shipping companies regarding a potential shipping accident or Lilly discovered when he predicted the Great Fire of London.

now two more trapped by a fire, wondering if that shows in your initial horary somewheres. to me this feels like a continuance of the same disaster.

Granny

I'm not sure that it can be seen as a continuation of the same disaster but perhaps the same astrological conditions that brought the initial disaster. Since the West Virginia accident a couple of weeks ago, I have read of four other mining accidents. One happened in Australia at the same time as the West Virginia accident. There was another a week or so later. I can't remember exactly where it was but I think it might have been the Ukraine. And just today there is a report of two miners killed and seventy trapped in a mine in Chile.

This is what I mean by looking at mundane event charts in a collection. These things always appear to happen in groupings. This suggests that there are certain astrological conditions around these times that are present when these accidents happen that are not present at other times. In my ideal world, there would be research money available to look at these things that would be able to predict these conditions beforehand thereby giving warning of the potential for more danger at that time.