Hi,
Below are two horaries; one asked by the wife, and the other by the husband.

The background for this situation is their marriage is hanging by a thread (literally)! The husband has cut himself off emotionally from the wife, and wants to leave the marriage. The change in his attitude is drastic and unexpected. The wife is devastated, since she is also dealing with the loneliness of an "empty nest". The wife has tried everything to convince him to stay in the marriage. The husband has not budged. However, he has not actively been looking to leave either. At the time the horary was asked, the husband was continuing to reside in the marital home, not actively looking for a place to go, and continuing to remain completely cut off from the wife.

Under normal circumstances, I find love/relationship horaries giving an unequivocal resounding "NO" for an answer. In these two cases, interestingly, both horaries indicate show perfection between the significators in some shape or manner, even though both horaries were asked at different times, different locations, different dates. In addition to this, neither party knows of the other party's horary.

Here's the charts and my interpretation. At the end of my interpretation, I will update you as to the current situation.

Horary asked by WIFE:
Is it Over? (the marriage)
Sep 9, 2014; 2:10 PM, Berkeley Heights, NJ
16:45 ASC in Saggitarius.
Querent: Wife, Jupiter in its triplicity in Leo, some strength, but in the 8th house of anguish. She is devastated.

Co-significator Moon in Pisces; no dignities, coming to a trine to a very powerful and malefic Mars in Scorpio; Mars: Husband; solitary, secluded, angry and cut off from the world in the 12th! I give Mars as co-significator of the husband, for the reason below.

I recall Lilly stating to take the planet the moon is last separating from for the querent: that would be Saturn in Scorpio; and the planet that the Moon is applying to as the quesited: that would give Mars the secondary significator for husband, along with the Sun representing the husband and Venus the wife.

Quesited: Mercury in Libra, no dignities; not quite sure how to interpret why it is in the 10th?

Mercury (husband) applies by sextile to Jupiter (wife), indicating the husband applies to the wife, but only Jupiter has strength, so not quite sure if he succeeds in his application, but the sextile is there.

Moon (wife) coming to a trine to Mars (husband), another sign of perfection. But this time the Moon is weak, and Mars is very powerful, so not sure if this perfection here succeeds or not either.

Venus is applying to a conjunction to the Sun, not sure if this perfection or combustion!!

So while I do see several indications of perfection, one or the other planet is weak, but my interpretation would be that the marriage is not over, there is an attempt at a reconciliation, surprisingly from the husband's advances, but not sure if that attempt succeeds.

==========================

Horary asked by HUSBAND:
"Should I stay in the marriage or move on?"
ASC 27:39 in Gemini;

Husband (querent): Mercury in 5th, retrograde
Co-significator: Moon in Virgo in its triplicity", in the 4rth. His mind is focused on his current "home", but that he may have to leave behind.

Wife: Jupiter in Leo, also in its triplicity, some strength

Mercury retrograde coming to a quick sextile with Jupiter, since both planets fairly strong, seeming to indicate perfection.

Moon coming to a sextile to Saturn in the 6th; Saturn ruling the 8th and 9th. I was unable to determine exactly what this might mean!!

As per Lilly, other co-significators of the querent/quesited in love horaries: Sun/Venus. Venus (wife) highly combust at the time the horary was asked, but also quickly moving into the strongest position possible: cazimi. Wife gains strength???

In addition to this, Venus exactly sextile Mars; and Mars conjunct DESC, indicating strife, quarrels, much ill will. But then, what's the sextile about?

From this chart I read the horary is advising the husband to stay in the marriage, in fact, he "retrogrades" - returns back to the wife!

So my composite interpretation of both charts seems to indicate that they will re-unite, albeit not without problems!

Current Situation:
The husband has left the house and moved into a temporary abode, until he can figure out exactly which way he wants to go. The wife is deeply hurt and continues to want the marriage to work, but is not in communication with the husband.

What do you think? I think both charts should be taken into consideration for the answer. Thanks for your feedback.

Taurus7

What do you think? I think both charts should be taken into consideration for the answer. Thanks for your feedback.

You have found yourself in a big trouble, haven't you?! You're besieged by the spouses now!

but, seriously, it is a very delicate situation and, it took me a while to think about what I would do should I find myself in it - being asked the same Question by two people who are currently going through the process of separation (or, at least, that is what they think is happening). I'm not sure what I'd do, to be perfectly honest.
In terms of the outcome, there is no need for two charts. However, in terms of the approach of each of the partners to the situation, it could be a good idea.
On the other hand, having two charts that confirm each other is good. As long as the shape of the main significators isn't drastically different because we can expect their attitude to be shown as, more or less, the same in both charts.
What's interesting, 'tho, is that both of them want an astrology reading- that means that neither is sure whether the separation is definite. It is a strong testimony of communication issues between them- they think they're splitting up and, at the same time, they want an astrologer to confirm it. Technically, they both still have power in their hands which, to a certain extent, the charts support. Maybe they should simply talk to each other.

As for the 1st chart:

Querent: Wife, Jupiter ...
........

the planet the moon is last separating from for the querent: that would be Saturn in Scorpio; and the planet that the Moon is applying to as the quesited: that would give Mars the secondary significator for husband.....
......

Quesited: Mercury in Libra, no dignities;...
.......

along with the Sun representing the husband and Venus the wife

That's 6 planets for two people!!!

I recall Lilly stating to take the planet the moon is last separating from for the querent: that would be Saturn in Scorpio; and the planet that the Moon is applying to as the quesited: that would give Mars the secondary significator for husband.....

See, this approach calls for a lot of caution. I allow anyone to disagree with me on this one but, once we decide to follow a specific approach, we should stick with it and try to avoid unnecessary combinations with other approaches. Namely, if we decide to use the planet to which the Moon is applying as a significator, then that planet becomes the primary, not secondary significator. Because, if we go on to use it alongside with the ruler of the relevant cusp, the whole process becomes pointless in terms of determining whether we have perfection. If we use the approach that says that we want to see the main significators in an applying aspect in order to conclude that we have a perfection and then, assign the planet from which the Moon is separating to one of the parties and the one to which it is applying to the other, we inevitably have a "positive outcome" - because we have Translation of Light which, in its own right, is a form of perfection. Likewise, if we assume that the Moon applying to the ruler of the Quesited is a sign of perfection, we can't assign the planet to which the Moon applies to the Quesited because, obviously, we ourselves "construct" that perfection.
It's confusing, I know.
Personally, i'd go for the rulers of the relevant cusps but, generally speaking- if your option is to use the planets that form the aspects with the Moon as significators, then, in my opinion, in this particular case, you'd simply have to examine the relationship between Mars and Saturn as those are your significators. Using all 4 planets might end up in a messy and unreliable reading. And, by adding Sun and Venus to the significators, you have a total of 6 rulers and you have basically assigned all existing planets to these two people.

Venus is applying to a conjunction to the Sun, not sure if this perfection or combustion!!

It's an almost perfect combustion. i'm joking, of course but, besides the fact that these two planets aren't relevant, Venus is still far from the Sun.

Mercury in Libra, no dignities; not quite sure how to interpret why it is in the 10th?

It's actually fits the story - the 4th stands for his own home and he is currently trying to figure out as to where to settle down. The fact that he is still living with her is surely strange (especially since they are both unsure whether their marriage is over). It's a strong link and should not be neglected.

As for the 2nd chart- the Ascendant is quite late, have you considered labeleing it non-radical?

Cheers,

aglaya

Aglaya,
Thank you for your very interesting (and I found entertaining) post.

Maybe they should simply talk to each other.

He has left the house and they are definitely not talking to each other, at least not for now....

Personally, i'd go for the rulers of the relevant cusps

I have to agree with you, I was just quoting Lilly (as I recall; I did not reference Christian Astrology), and I'm sure you know how confusing Lilly can be

Now the reason I said to take both charts into consideration was only because I was kind of blown away by how both charts were showing perfection between the primary significators, because I think 99% of relationship horaries usually do not show perfection, so this struck me as pretty amazing. I brought the 2nd chart into the picture for reference sake, like "Wow! Horary is amzing! - look at that!".

So now if we simplify everything, take only the primary significators into consideration:

WIFE'S CHART:
Wife: Jupiter; Husband: Mercury
Outcome: Mercury coming to a sextile to Jupiter; 1 form of perfectiion; I don't have my solarfire here but I don't think there is any type of reception between them.
Co-significator of the wife Moon is coming to a trine to Mars: I would go far as to say that Mars in the 12th extremely strong in his "solitude: in Scorpio is a good representation of the husband's condition at that time.
This would indicate to me that it's not over, albeit with hindrance and trouble.

HUSBAND'S CHART:
Wife: Jupiter (again - pretty cool, I'd say!! coincidence???)
Husband: Mercury (again! horary never ceases to amaze me).

So seriously, I think it's interesting that in both charts, the husband and wife and being represented by the same planets, although the questions were asked on different dates and locations.

Outcome: Mercury retrograde (husband returning) to sextile to Jupiter (same aspect as in wife's chart, except this time in retrograde)

Regarding the late ASC, I think it is more a consideration than a rigid stricture, and since the whole chart really seems to fit the picture, I believe it is fit to be judged.

OK, so both charts seem to indicate to me them coming together. But he's left to contemplate what to do, or simply because he's done, and neither have made contact with the other person since he left. So what's going on?

What do you think? I am a little perplexed because to me both horaries indicate some level of reconciliation, albeit not without issues.

Taurus 7[/u]

Does anyone see separation in either of these two charts? Would much appreciate feedback.
I have never seen a Horary to be wrong. But these two are separated right now and both horaries seem to indicate reconciliation.
What an I misreading?
Thanks much!

Are you someone in between the two people, or are you one of them?

Is it possible that the woman has actually met someone else? A secret lover? It is a possible encounter happening in December most probably.

It is a contact indicated by Mars in both charts.

Are you someone in between the two people

I am in between

Is it possible that the woman has actually met someone else?

Do you mean the trine of Moon (wife) to Mars in the 12th in the first chart?
And sextile of Venus to Mars on cusp of 7th in the 2nd chart?
Or just Mars conjunct 7th.

That is an intersting observation that I missed. Not to my knowledge, but December isn't over yet (or I don't know). Why did you say December?

In fact, Mars is pretty strong and prominent in both charts, and associated with the wife. If its not a secret lover, then what/who might this represent?

I didn't have much free time over the last few days...

Taurus7 wrote:
In fact, Mars is pretty strong and prominent in both charts, and associated with the wife. If its not a secret lover, then what/who might this represent?

It is interesting, I agree!
Technically, I would dismiss the 2nd chart (late Asc, same question...), but, Mars does seem to be very chatty in both of them. The Moon is in a watery triplicity in Chart 1 (ruled by Mars) and applying to it and then, there's Mars on the 7th cusp in Chart 2. It doesn't necessarily have to be a secret lover, but it would be good to keep in mind that Mars rules male figures and that the charts suggest some sort of contact between the Querent and a Mars ruled person/activity.

On the other hand, it could be simply a martian activity however, at this point, 3 whole months after they question was asked, you have the possibility to compare the activities with the promises from the chart and see if any of the relevant events (moving out, for instance) fits the orb of the application. If it does, then, maybe the Mars was representing the stressful activities that already took place.

Cheers,

aglaya

I have a simple delineation of the charts. Only the wife's chart should be read. The question is Is it over? and the answer is yes. The sigs are coming together to show it is over. The Moon's next aspect is a trine to Mars in the 12th,Mars and Saturn in the 12th indicate he is having an affair, I am sad to say. Husband's chart indicates with the Ascendant late the matter is already ripe and you have an answer in the wife's chart, which is, it is in fact over. Nothing can be done past this point and the wife will likely find out about a secret mistress or something else (12th).