Deb wrote:

If the 7th house is used for the undesignated individual ...

Vyri, can you tell me where you get the idea that the 7th house represents "an undesignated individual" for this kind of chart? Is this your interpretation of what Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson says on p.207 of her book? I am trying to track down the origin of where this idea comes from, so a reference will be appreciated for saving my time.

Would also appreciate anyone else's references to horary texts that suggest the 7th house offers signification of the quesited in horaries asked out of concern for missing people, where the querent doesn't have an identifiable relationship with the quesited.

Thanks for any responses!

Lilly in CA-II

If he be in the 7th, it may be his own wife or lover, or some female who has been suspected of having connexion with the querent: or it is some person with whom he deals publicly, or one who is his open enemy.

C.C.Zain:

https://www.light.org/Doctrine-of-Horar ... -SL089.cfm

SEVENTH HOUSE: Marriage, war, partnership, contracts, sweethearts, public enemies, defendant in a law suit, the astrologer, the physician, the opposing party, those met in public, any person inquired about not denoted by one of the other houses, such as a stranger, or a thief when there is a theft.

PD

Hi Pankajdubey,

The ref from Lilly isn't relevant because this is not "some person with whom he deals publicly". Also, Lilly explains that whilst a stranger can be assigned to the 7th house (where there is a prospect of the querent -1st house - meeting a stranger), he is also perfectly clear that when asking about a missing person, if there is no relationship with the querent, we use the asc, its ruler and the Moon to signify the missing person:

CA, p.151: "If a question be demanded of one absent in a general way, and the querent has no relation to the party; then the first house, the lord of that house and the Moon shall signify the absent party".

So I think we can rule Lilly out as being an origin for this belief.

The C.C. Zain quote is very interesting as that might have been the first to introduce the confusion, dating to 1931 - thanks for that!

The CC Zain books and study books are a source, but there is a source chart Ivy refers to least I be wrong in my supposition about the relationship, (the reference does it not enact a someone asking for assistance from the astrologer, and then the timing will be when first brought to clarity, or does the astrologer see an article in a newspaper or such of a lost individual and attempt to help solve the situation by bringing to light as much concern, as a crime solver or just someone that wishes to assist the authorities and those in need) I understand the relationship has to exist, and the astrologer is represented by the 7th house when someone asks the question or first depending should the astrologer ask. Open for suggestions.
Pg. 108 gives such a reference?
Much thanks to you for your time and corrections

Pankadubey and Deb
Sincerely Vyri

No, you are not wrong in your supposition about the approach taken in that chart (IGJ, p.108). It's a very clear example, so the ref was useful to me - thanks for that. Its not the approach I would take myself though, bearing in mind the comment from Lilly I quoted above, and that makes it hard for me to see the chart in the same way that you would.

Your conclusions abt 7th house for this missing youth can only be confirmed when you describe how this young guy is related to you. 7th house is the house of marriage, business partnerships and open enemies . The meaning is very vast and your relation with missing guy should be within any of these criteria if you insist on 7th house.

Vyri wrote:The CC Zain books and study books are a source, but there is a source chart Ivy refers to least I be wrong in my supposition about the relationship, (the reference does it not enact a someone asking for assistance from the astrologer, and then the timing will be when first brought to clarity, or does the astrologer see an article in a newspaper or such of a lost individual and attempt to help solve the situation by bringing to light as much concern, as a crime solver or just someone that wishes to assist the authorities and those in need) I understand the relationship has to exist, and the astrologer is represented by the 7th house when someone asks the question or first depending should the astrologer ask. Open for suggestions.
Pg. 108 gives such a reference?
Much thanks to you for your time and corrections

Pankadubey and Deb
Sincerely Vyri

There were so many splendid comments. Thank you all.

In Sue Ward?s Horary Course, she said that the 1st house for a complete stranger, that was someone you had never met, nor were likely to meet, whilst, the people of the 7th house represented who you would contact with but did not belong to any other house.

This was reflected in CA page 151 and page 147 and it would like to be quote here:

?If a Question be demanded of one absent in a general way, and the querent has no relation to the party; then the first house, the Lord of that House and the Moon shall signify the absent party.?

?The Ascendant and his Lord are for the Querent, the seventh house and his Lord from him you would speak with, this is understood, if you go to speak with one you familiarly deal with ,or are much conversant with, and is not allied to you,but if you would go speak with the Father, you must take the Lord of the fourth, if with the Mother,the Lord of the tenth,if the Father would speak with his Child, the Lord of the fifth, and so in the rest; vary your rule and it serves for all.?