13 by fleur Deb wrote:Fleur wrote:Hitler's Ascendant is 26 degrees Libra 40 minutes, which is miles from this eclipse Not according to the rectified chart - the ascendant is at 20.29 Libra, and Uranus sits upon it at 19.29 Libra, so the eclipse (at 18.26 Libra) was within 1? of the Uranus-Asc conjunction. I have long suspected that Hitler's Ascendant is about 28 degrees Libra, and that would be exactly hit (within about one degree) by the transiting Moon's North Node in 29 degrees Libra in November 1939 (the Mean Node about 28 degrees Libra 40 minutes on 8th November). And also transiting Phaethon would square his Ascendant within one degree, which would account for the inner planet trigger, which otherwise wouldn't be there leaving no explanation for the precise few days predicted. (Phaethon lies between Mars and Jupiter). Imo the transiting Moon's Nodes are very powerful, but eclipses just don't seem to work and are often based on Sun and Moon conjunctions and oppositions many degrees from the Moon's Nodes. That 20 degrees Libra 29 minutes rectified Ascendant looks too suspiciously exactly conjunct Uranus. Hmm, ok I will look at that rectified chart. Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:35 pm
14 by Deb The opening posts asks how Kraft made his prediction, and it is known he used the rectified chart, so that's obviously the one to consider. I suspect the astrologers involved in the events at that time gave a lot more ongoing thought and observation to the details of Hitler's chart than any of us do now. Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:26 pm
15 by james_m astrocorreia- thanks for starting the conversation here on this. i think it is a great question. ursa - thanks for trying to answer my question and providing that interesting link.. deb thanks for the interesting link with hitlers chart included as well.. i agree with your comment i have copied below.. Deb wrote:I suspect the astrologers involved in the events at that time gave a lot more ongoing thought and observation to the details of Hitler's chart than any of us do now. judith hill offers a good quote on the transit of the nodal axis which i am going to paraphrase here.. north node on any planet is like a 'power surge' for that planet.. south node on any planet is like a 'power outage'.. she uses a 3 degree orb on this. i think this quote is quite a good way to think about using the nodes in understanding charts better and perhaps hitlers chart for this window of time that krafft focused on in particular. here's why. according to the link ursa left, the main reason krafft focused on this time frame was due the solar eclipse close to this time. eclipse data is directly connected with the place of the nodal axis by transit.. on the date of solar eclipse, south node is approx 1 degree away from hitlers natal sun which is in the 8th sign/house from the ascendant. the possibility of death would seem more pronounced using this small detail only. the solar eclipse is at 18 libra 36, which is quite close to the position of uranus on the ascendant at 19 libra 29.. if you do a chart up for the time of the eclipse to hitlers birthplace there are some valuable cross connections back to hitlers natal chart that some might like to consider. i think krafft would have been looking at this 2 chart overlap and drawing some conclusions. if i would talk about only one of the many cross connections from the eclipse chart it would be the venus/saturn opposition on the nodal axis for the solar eclipse (se). venus rules the ascendant and 8th house in hitlers chart.. in the se chart, uranus/saturn rules the 8th house.. i suppose one can draw many different conclusions off the connections.. making a prediction is much more difficult to do though.. the nov 7-10th window of time has the sun transiting thru the venus/saturn square by opposition/square.this venus to saturn square is especially important in hitlers chart as it brings the ruler of the ascendant and the 8th together with the malefic saturn.. it also has the moon traveling thru libra/scorpio, over the se point and nodal axis area again as well.. while this is only some of what one can see overlapping the charts, it still remains to be seen what krafft was using to make the prediction aside from this.. i wish i knew.. there are other things i see, but there is no way i can know if krafft used these different techniques that i am looking at.. if someone finds out more - let us know. thanks.. image ru Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:55 pm
16 by Mark Deb wrote: The article linked to above is very interesting, but if you refer to the text I linked to, we can see that the astrology was not dependent on Hellenistic methods. The astrological basis of the warning is very clear and obvious to me; and if you run a bi-wheel for the time of the blast (Munich, 9:20 pm) you see many valid connections, such as Moon on the 12th cusp, with Saturn conjoined to 12th-ruler Mercury, and Sun opposing Mars on the 8th cusp. You may be correct that transits and the eclipse are quite sufficient to explain this prediction. I have had little time to study this issue myself yet. While the use of hellenistic techniques ( beyond Ptolemy or Firmicus) seems implausible as you suggest James' comment on the nodes made we wonder if Kraft might have been using some Indian astrological ideas too? This speculation is more plausible than it initially sounds. We tend to think of Indian astrology first being introduced to the west after WWII. However, there was considerable interest in Indian astrological ideas in Germany in the inter-war period. Articles were written on Indian astrology by Otto Von Bressensdorff (1921) , Johannes Stoeffler (1921-22), Wilhelm Wulffe (1929 onwards) , Dr A Schoeler (1930-1) Alfred Grimm (1926-31). Prior to WWI there are also numerous articles on Indian astrology by Karl Brandler-Pracht, and Dr Christian W?llner. I confess I know little of Kraft's astrological techniques but I do wonder if he may have used the transiting nodes in his delineation of charts. Maybe its coincidence but I note that on the dates Kraft predicted the personal danger to Hitler would be most intense the transiting nodes were exactly conjunct to the arc minute the position of Venus in the eclipse chart. Especially, significant considering Venus was Hitler's ASC ruler. Mark Last edited by Mark on Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:35 pm, edited 3 times in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:55 pm
17 by astrocorreia Deb wrote:Wilhelm Wulff's rectified chart, and details of how it fell into the hands of the gestapo is also detailed in this section of the reproduction of his Zodiac and the Swastika: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wulff2.html scroll down to see the chart This book is sooo interesting Deb. Not only Hitler had Saturn on Volck`s ascendant,but his Mars was opposite Hitler`s Saturn. And his own Saturn on Hitler`s ascendant,and Uranus opposite his Venus-Mars. Wullf predicted Volck would be released from prison in july 1932 which proved accurate. Jupiter was rising and Saturn in 7th dignified Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:20 pm
18 by james_m mark, good questions regarding indian astrology having an influence on kraffts work.. and good observation on the transit node on venus back in the solar eclipse.. the solar eclipse holds a very close venus/saturn opposition which i pointed out, so this is highlighted again via the transit data if one looks at the nodal axis.. also, venus is the 8th house ruler as well as the 1st house ruler and probably equally or more important - the square between venus and saturn is highlighted strongly as a consequence of all this.. we need to find out what other techniques krafft was using.. i don't know how to do that. Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:56 pm
19 by Mark Hi James, Yes all good observations on the charts. James_m wrote: we need to find out what other techniques krafft was using.. i don't know how to do that. Learning German sounds a good start! Alternatively, you can rather laboriously go through google translate. Mark Last edited by Mark on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:01 pm
20 by astrocorreia Mark wrote:James_m wrote: we need to find out what other techniques krafft was using.. i don't know how to do that. Learning German sounds a good start! Mark I can read German. Are there books by him on sale? I`m curious about which Vedic techniques he used. But as mentioned in the preface,he seems to have been unable to predict his own troubles with the Nazis Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:04 pm
21 by james_m thanks mark, here is a small bit of info to confirm my suspicion and bias, lol.. " He was the author of a number of books in French and German. Krafft was one of the originators of Cosmobiology." http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Krafft,_Karl_Ernst Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:15 pm
22 by Mark astrocorreia wrote; I can read German. Are there books by him on sale? Ah good for you. I confess I was being a triifle flippant in my reply to James. I had assumed the articles and books works of Krafft would be available online as they must all be out of copyright. I found much of the work of the great German astrologer Vehlow this way. He was one of the few first rate German astrologers to survive the Nazis. But I have come up a blank on Krafft so far. You may well have more success googling on German or French (thanks James!) sites. I gather from Wikipedia he wrote an epic work that was 10 years in production entitled Traits of Astro-Biology. . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Ernst_Krafft Krafft seems to have been one of the first astrologers to apply statistical methods to his astrological research. He is mentioned by Michel Gauquelin as a pioneer in this area although Gauquelin thought there were serious flaws in his methodology. Failing any online resources on Krafft I guess we need to consult our resident bibliographic expert Philip Graves! astrocorreia wrote: I`m curious about which Vedic techniques he used. I am not sure he did use any. It was just a speculation on my part. But Wilhelm Wulff does certainly seem to have fused some Indian techniques with his astrology. astrocorreia wrote: But as mentioned in the preface,he seems to have been unable to predict his own troubles with the Nazis Yes but he lived in exceptionally difficult times for an astrologer. And astrologers often lack the necessary objectivity in examining their own own natal charts do they not? But the myopia of pride and ego may provide another explanation. In addition to being highly ambitious and confident in his abilities Krafft seems to have wanted to make an astrological name for himself in Germany. Krafft also seems to have been at least initially sympathetic to the Nazis. A fact that has rather tarnished his reputation for some. I have taken the comments below from T.W.M. van Berkel's site: http://www.nostradamusresearch.org/en/w ... t-info.htm A convinced national-socialist? Quite a number of bizarre stories are told about Karl Ernst Krafft, such as that he was Hitler's astrologer or "the astrologer of the Nazis", meaning that he advised Hitler and/or prominent Germans in their war manoeuvres. Ellic Howe, who in the sixties did extensive research on the life and work of Krafft, did not find any hints for this. In his eyes, the rumour that Krafft as an astrologer was involved in war strategies, was launched by Louis de Wohl (Ludwig von Wohl, 1903-1961), in World War II working at the SOE section of the British Secret Service, who for some time gave advices, based upon "astrological counter-moves" against German war strategies which according to him were based upon astrology.[11] In 1949, a book was published about Goebbels, written by Boris von Borresholm and Karena Niehoff, based upon notes which people in his neighbourhood made during his lifetime. Else on this website, their story about the way Goebbels came to use the Centuries for propaganda purposes and the part played by Krafft, is refuted. People who knew Krafft, such as Georg Lucht, his secretary, and dr. Hans-Hermann Kritzinger, described him as a driven, ambitious person, convinced of his own right and talent and constantly trying to appear before the footlights with epoch-making publications. In Switzerland, Krafft did not find the recognition he thought he deserved, which was reason for him to settle in Germany and to look for ways to make the astrological science as he saw it, servile to Germany. Hans Bender, a German parapsychologist who also knew Krafft, described him as political naive and a person who hoped that national-socialism would put an end to materialism and mechanistic ideas. The question rises if Krafft was a convinced national-socialist. The literature which is studied in this substudy does not provide a simple "yes". Howe's ''Uranias Children''... contains fragments from Krafft's correspondence in 1938 and later, in which he wrote about conspiracies of Jews and freemasons, a theme which also is part of the national-socialist ideology. Krafft worked for national-socialist propaganda institutions and proclaimed the victory and supremacy of Germany. For Krafft, however, the Centuries were not merely a propaganda source, but a research object, and to this we have to add that early publications of Krafft and his correspondence from the late thirties and 1940 show that he was convinced that the Centuries contained predictions about Nazi-Germany. From the descriptions of the lectures he gave in 1941, it can be derived that above all Krafft was the centre, who by means of astrology and the Centuries explained which events immediately were at hand. He did not care if this would raise a conflict with the Gestapo. Krafft's sympathy for nazi-Germany is a given fact, as well as his propaganda writings, but it seems that not his political conviction has been his main guideline, but his own ambitions. Mark Last edited by Mark on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:27 pm
23 by astrocorreia Thanks Mark I was referring to Wullf not Kraft,but Kraft would do,as well as Velhow.They were part of the Hamburg school right? Sometimes these early 20th century astrologers seem to know more than us moderns. There was also the Dutch Knegt,whom skeptics call the white crow of astrology for getting 10 out of 10 hits in a test Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:05 pm
24 by astrocorreia http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/ ... ncien.html Found it 2nd hand in French and ordered it. Hope it`s worth.Couldnt find it anywhere else Quote Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:21 pm