Haven't really had time to go deeper in to the astrology of the elections but I am following both this thread and the media coverage with huge interest. From my perspective though it looks as if Neptune really is the planet running the show this time and I have some intuitive images of how it will play out, just don't have much astrology to bases it one at the moment. One thing I thought of that is very important here when talking about Victory and Defeat is "What do we really mean by that? Is it the highest vote %, most seats or who will come out as the PM in the end?

Personally I believe it's most seat that tunes best with what astrology at large reveals to us here, and there I agree with Cameron as being Victorious, but I don't see him as the next PM - unless we will have another 1992, but at least I cannot see Uranus being up to something like that e.g. in the Close of Poll chart. In a longer perspective he will probably also be victorious, but not really as one may expect. A bit like I last time "predicted" Clegg to be PM and he eventually actually ended up as DPM. So he will probably be rewarded further down the lane.

In a similar way, I believe that the downfall of Labour (because it's out of time) and RED will go via the height of the PM post. Just as the wisdom of Neptune tells you to "be careful what you wish for" RED seems too eager to get there and doesn't really strike me as a wise guy, and consequently will become an easy game for Neptune. But, Neptune just doesn't work swiftly, so it will take some time although at this moment I'm not sure about how long that will be.

Mcajob wrote:

If it goes to court as threatened then the "legitimacy" of the Labour objections would be questioned as well assuming we still have Rule of Law in this country

Hi Matthew,

I didn't mean anything as formal as a legal challenge. I think that would probably play poorly with much of the electorate as Miliband would look like just a bad loser. Not something Labour would want to risk I think. But Labour campaign propaganda is already suggesting Cameron would have no automatic right to 'squat' at no 10 if the Conservatives get a handful of seats more than Labour.

To be fair the old convention that if your party has the largest number of seats you must naturallly form the next government is surely rather outdated. It made sense when the two major parties got over 90% of the popular vote but it looks quite naive now. Britain is still caught up in a time warp of two party thinking. We need education on what multi-party coalition politics involves from the Europeans!

If Cameron gets more sets (which I suspect he will) he will no doubt feel he has the right to govern. With a Moon in Leo he probably feels that anyway! So I think he will attempt to go to the Queen to be made PM and hope that he can cobble together enough seats from the Lib Dems and DUP to pass a Queens Speech through the Westminster. He might even have to hold his nose and involve UKIP although I think he will strain to avoid that if he can.

At least in the short term Cameron and the Conservatives have rather cleverly outmanouvered Miliband on the option of a coalition or a less formal confidence and supply agreement with the SNP. In the longer term though their strategy of demonising a party that has 50% popular support in Scotland may only weaken the union further. Kind of ironic for a party that has unionist in its name.

Miliband was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. If he went into such an agreement with the SNP it would probably play poorly with much of middle England. It might be to his short term political advantage but his calculation would be that this would create long term damage for Labour amongst many floating English voters.

The mostly right of centre popular press has rather demonised the prospect of a Labour-SNP collaboration as destablising the entire UK. By rejecting such an option its hard to see how Miliband can form a working administration if the Liberal Democrats prefer to work with the Conservatives.

Miliband has guaranteed Cameron the chance to form an administration first if he has even a handful more seats than Labour. The Lib Dems under Clegg (if he remains?) seem inclined to keep supporting the existing coalition with the Conservatives to vindicate their work over the last 5 years.

Miliband would be relying on a Queens speech by Cameron being defeated first and then trying to put through a Labour Queens speech as a minority government. But Cameron would obviously do everything to get his Queens Speech through. If necessary by forming a confidence and supply deal with the DUP.

Unless we get a surprise result like 1992 with either Labour or the Conservatives getting a far bigger vote than the opinion polls suggest we look like being in for a very difficult and fraught time ahead.

If ever there was a poisoned chalice I think the next government will hold it.

Mark

I'm perhaps blowing my own trumpet here but I did point out that English national identity would be a significant factor in this election due to the solar eclipse on the 1066 Moon.

I had thought of UKIP and the Conservative drive for EVEL (English votes forEnglish Laws) was a dimension of this. What I didn't anticipate was much how the Conservative campaign machine would seek to relentlessly exploit fear of the SNP amongst English voters.

Ideologically, this is understandable as the SNP is about as different politically from the Conservatives as you can get.

Still, this often comes over as close to outright antipathy to Scots in general. For example, Boris Johnson coining the term a 'Jockalypse' if Labour work with the SNP.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 28433.html

The comments received greater attention on Tuesday when a heckler at a David Cameron speech accused the Conservatives of whipping up ?racism?.

This has raised the ethnic tension defcon level across the UK. Paradoxically, it is the SNP who want a role in UK government while the UK parties have all taken the line that a separatist party like the SNP cannot be allowed to have representation in the next UK government.

The perplexing political reality for the UK party leaders is that the SNP currently seems to have majority support amongst Scottish voters. By excluding this party from having any political influence in a Westminister government they are effectively denying the majority of Scots from having a say in the next government.

It looks like a win win scenario for the nationalists either way.

Mark

I cannot find the story now but the rumour was if Cameron stayed in number 10 because he had the most MP's Miliband and Balls would go to court to overturn the result. Whatever the truth Labour will lose because the SNP did not support them but will go to them to grab power. Miliband is ruthless enough to try it but it is not right or just. More rumours a while ago suggest Labour MP's do not want any deal with the SNP. Maybe they will fight against giving power over the UK to a party who are against the UK. There is more to this than arithmetic
Matthew

Its only minutes after the polls closed but the first exit polls indicate the Conservatives will increase their number of seats significantly while Labour will lose seats on their 2010 position. The exit polls also predict the Lib Dems being decimated with only 10 seats. We will see if the result is quite that disastrous or whether they perform stronger due to their strong local base in some core constituencies. Frustratingly for Cameron it so far looks like he will still lack enough seats to govern with an outright parliamentary majority. Still, if he gets over 310 polling pundits think he could try to govern as a Conservative minority government. Not least as his opponents look like being so politically dispersed.

The SNP are predicted to clean up in Scotland. Many Labour 'big beasts' in Scotland could be voted out tonight in Scotland. This may even include the Scottish Labour Leader Jim Murphy. Recently, that looked totally unthinkable due to his majority that looked impregnable.

We shall see...

Anyway, lets belatedly look at that Conservative party chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... y_%28UK%29

There is no chart for the founding of the party. Its origins could be said to be more gradualist than defined by a single event.

Still one event used for the beginning of the modern Conservative party was the first meeting of The National Union of Conservative and Unionist Associations. This was a federation of the voluntary wing of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom. It was founded in 1867 and was the first formal national Conservative organisation.

I have displayed the chart on its own (untimed noon) and as a bi-wheel with transits. I will leave the rest to you!
Mark

Mcajob wrote:

Whatever the truth Labour will lose because the SNP did not support them but will go to them to grab power.

I dont follow what you are saying here Matthew. It was obviously Labour who rejected overtures by Nicola Sturgeon /SNP not vice versa. However, as I indicated earlier in the thread there were always fundamental divisions between Labour and the SNP on the austerity cuts, Trident and of course the fate of the union so this never looked a likely link up to me.

Mcajob wrote:

Miliband is ruthless enough to try it but it is not right or just.

He is a party leader Matthew. You dont get to be one by being warm and cuddly!

Mcajob wrote:

More rumours a while ago suggest Labour MP's do not want any deal with the SNP.

Perhaps. I think Ed Balls was strongly against it and so were the Scottish Labour party. But Labour is a broad church with many views.

Its certainly no rumour that Miliband will not deal with the SNP regardless of the result. Miliband is on public record making this emphatically clear he will not form a coalition or confidence and supply agreement with the SNP.

Mcajob wrote:

Maybe they will fight against giving power over the UK to a party who are against the UK. There is more to this than arithmetic

Well yes a fair point. Maybe to give Miliband some credit he sees some basic political differences he cannot bridge. Lets remember the Labour party in Scotland have been fighting the SNP tooth and nail.

Mark

More party charts:

The Liberal Democrats led by Nick Clegg:

No prizes for spotting Neptune conj the Lib Dem Sun! Tr Moon on Lib Dem Uranus. Tr Mars on Lib Dem Lot of Fortune. Transiting nodes square radix Neptune.

The UK Independence party led by Nigel Farage (untimed):
Transits: Neptune opposing UKIP Sun. Pluto square radix Jupiter and Mars. Tr Mercury on radix South Node. Transiting South Node on conj radix Moon. Tr Jupiter sextile Jupiter and Mars. Close of poll ASC on radix North Node. Tr Moon square radix Moon.


The Scottish National Party (SNP) led by Nicola Sturgeon

Despite research into the history of the party I have not been able to identify a time for their first meeting from surviving records. However, I have rectified it. I am convinced the party has a mid-Cancer ASC based a lot of research into the history of the party and the nativities of key figures. Uranus was squaring the SNP ASC at the referendum last September. However, rather than set the party back the referendum result was followed by an unprecedented surge in party with membership rising from 25,000 to 115,000.
Transits: Tr Jupiter sextile Jupiter, Tr Jupiter trine zenith, Tr Neptune opp Neptune, Tr Pluto opp ASC, Tr Uranus square Pluto, Tr SN Nodes on Mercury, Tr Mars trine Saturn

Mark

JoakimS wrote:unless we will have another 1992, but at least I cannot see Uranus being up to something like that e.g. in the Close of Poll chart.

I was wrong and didn't look carefully enough, missing the Uranus Sesquiquadrate (135 deg) to Asc and Saturn in the "Close of Poll" chart.

Mark wrote:Mcajob wrote:

Whatever the truth Labour will lose because the SNP did not support them but will go to them to grab power.

I dont follow what you are saying here Matthew. It was obviously Labour who rejected overtures by Nicola Sturgeon /SNP not vice versa. However, as I indicated earlier in the thread there were always fundamental divisions between Labour and the SNP on the austerity cuts, Trident and of course the fate of the union so this never looked a likely link up to me.

Mcajob wrote:

Miliband is ruthless enough to try it but it is not right or just.

He is a party leader Matthew. You dont get to be one by being warm and cuddly!

Mcajob wrote:

More rumours a while ago suggest Labour MP's do not want any deal with the SNP.

Perhaps. I think Ed Balls was strongly against it and so were the Scottish Labour party. But Labour is a broad church with many views.

If Miliband is so ruthless why take his word as a gentleman? It is academic now of course. He is set to resign as party leader by noon today and Ed Balls has lost his seat

WOW! Lot of prominent heads are rolling... I this a reflection of the 2015 Solar Eclipse on the England 1066 chart's Moon? Will there be more to come?

WOW! Lot of prominent heads are rolling... I this a reflection of the 2015 Solar Eclipse on the England 1066 chart's Moon? Will there be more to come?

Yes, so many big names toppling, and of course the eclipse was so close to the Sun's ingress, the chart of which, set for London, is very important.