Traditional astrology guidelines aren't working for the chart as posted. Two such important life milestones as the birth of a first child and the capstone on a prestigious career are not shown by Saturn at the nadir/IC or 10th lord Venus (both NG and MC) conjunct Ketu in the 3rd house area. We would expect to see a prominent Jupiter and Venus for these milestone events.

Tropical psychological astrology may point to an angular Saturn and natal Mars/Pluto near the Solar Return ascendant as indicating a difficult year, but that's not what Traditional astrology is all about. I don't see anything in the chart as posted that would indicate overwhelming career success or the birth of a child as being the keynote events of the year. Here perhaps is the clue as to why tropical astrology departed from event prediction in the 20th century.

Also the natal chart doesn't indicate career success if the 10th house is taken as the indication of success and prestige. The lord of the MC is Venus which is in the 12th with Ketu. The picture is better with Gemini at the NG, as Mercury is is Virgo near the ascendant, but also combust.

hi therese,

since it appears as though you're (at least in part) addressing my comments, without stating so directly... for the record - i combine a number of different techniques, but the thread question was one of combust planets in solar return charts which i have tried to address in my own individual manner while keeping it the focus..

in the solar return for 1986, mercury and the moon are combust the sun..it is interesting for me as i don't view combust the same way as others as i said before.. moon is the exalted ruler of the midheaven too fwiw, while mercury is the ruler of the whole sign 10th and ascendant - an important planet to the chart and highlighting the importance of trying to understand how combust planets operate.. solar return venus conjunct saturn in libra i think is significant - both planets in a sign they work well within and i believe partly addressing the events in wangshans life.. going back to the natal chart - saturn rules the 5th/6th, while venus rules the midheaven degree and 2nd house... to me that is a big positive which ties in with the achievement suggested by completing one's internship..

of course astrology is an intuitive art... no 2 astrologers will view all this the same way..

JamesM wrote:

of course astrology is an intuitive art... no 2 astrologers will view all this the same way..

This is the difference between Traditional astrology and contemporary tropical astrology. Traditional astrology follows certain "rules and regulations" that astrologers adhere to. Contemporary western astrology tends to be "to each his own."

This is true even in such basics as the meaning of gender and polarity which have been discussed on the sidereal forum. So each astrologer will make a choice in personal work: "This is the way I see it" or "I follow certain rules and standards that have been part of astrology since Hellenistic times." (Until modern tropical which began with Alan Leo.)

The Fagan school of sidereal astrology also has set patterns it follows in relation to the basic meanings of planets and the importance of angularity. So the interpretation of charts will tend to be similar among astrologers. India's astrology is also "fixed" in the rules of interpretation. So it's only western tropical astrology that shifts here and there depending on the individual astrologer's perception. This is why no one has yet been able to provide proof for astrology. Even so, the astrologer needs clear intuition when working with clients. But this isn't the same as changing traditional rules.

therese,

instead of me offering a rebuttal to your post (or axe to grind?), i suggest taking it up on the philosophical forum where i would be much more likely to respond!! cheers james

This is an interesting year because events don't match the emotional trauma of the year.

I'm not sure what that means. Maybe I should articulate more on the events, sorry I hadn't really thought things out when I first posted . Of course the birth of your first child is suposed to be a joyous event. But I was depressed at the thought of having to leave her at 2 months old ,with my niece who took care of her and go back to work for the remainder of the year ( four months ) plus wondering how I could have made such a huge mistake in marrying her father. Have you any idea what it's like working a minimum of 130 hour weeks? But I felt like I had no choice. Moon burnt up by sun? I felt like I had to sacrifice my infants early months ( neptune in 5th) for my career (venus, natally in house of hospitals, with SR venus conjunct natal saturn and neptune (work,dreams).
The angular T square and Saturn squaring asc probably has more to do with me walking in on my ex husband kissing one of his ER nurses than my career. Ugh, I almost forgot about that , thanks for reminding me why that year was horrible ! I guess there's a reason why I failed to mention that little detail, still painful to this day.
FWIW 1982-3 SR had ASC at 9;47 virgo-first year of med school
1987-8 had mars 8;11 and venus 14;59 of virgo and pluto in scorpio conjunct the Asc 1"03' apart- I had a molar pregnancy, which is a bizarre genetic abnormality that under certain conditions carries an 85% mortality rate. Ewe, forgot about that one too.

Therese wrote:
This is an interesting year because events don't match the emotional trauma of the year.

Waybran replied:
I'm not sure what that means.

It means that the birth of a child and becoming a full M.D. are both generally "happy" events, but the year was very stressful for you. Both of these should be shown clearly in the solar return. Actually the chart I'm looking at now does show an angular SR Jupiter trine SR Venus at the MC, BUT the MC/Venus falls directly on natal Saturn/Neptune (which are in the mansion of the 5th house lord, but that's material for the sidereal forum.) So this seems to clearly describe what you wrote below:

Of course the birth of your first child is supposed to be a joyous event. But I was depressed at the thought of having to leave her at 2 months old ,with my niece who took care of her and go back to work for the remainder of the year (four months )

With three children of my own, I know that is indeed a reason for depression and mental pain. Women who feel drawn to a career really do have to contend with triple duty if they have children.

...plus wondering how I could have made such a huge mistake in marrying her father. Have you any idea what it's like working a minimum of 130 hour weeks? But I felt like I had no choice. Moon burnt up by sun?

I think it's the emphasis on Saturn shown in different ways in the tropical SR as already discussed and MC/Venus on natal Saturn/Neptune in the sidereal return.

I felt like I had to sacrifice my infants early months (Neptune in 5th) for my career

(venus, natally in house of hospitals, with SR venus conjunct natal saturn and neptune (work,dreams).
The angular T square and Saturn squaring asc probably has more to do with me walking in on my ex husband kissing one of his ER nurses than my career.

Saturn rules the 7th in the sidereal chart I'm using at the moment. So the symbolism is accurate with the 1986 SR Venus/MC conjunct natal Saturn/Neptune. Because the solar return MC is involved, this indicates one or more keynote events of the year. (For those who wonder, the MC in this chart is far removed from the NG, and falls in the 11th house.)

Thank you very much for the added information, Waybran. I think your natal Moon with Ketu is the signature of decisions made that can be regretted later. But that is another topic. It was painful for you to drag up the details, but they are very helpful in understanding the astrological picture. (I'm going to look at your 1982-83 SR later today or tomorrow.)

Therese

I'm confused. I have barely grasped western astrology so dare not venture into an entirely different system. All I know is that because of the conjunctions and the emphasis on the 23rd degree in my chart, it's hard to separate out what's doing what, when something hits that degree, everything goes. Maybe we can stick to the original concept of combustion and what that means in a solar return ( it would help me). Simple ,one at a time.

wangshan wrote:I'm confused. I have barely grasped western astrology so dare not venture into an entirely different system....Maybe we can stick to the original concept of combustion and what that means in a solar return ( it would help me). Simple ,one at a time.

I'm sorry, Wangshan. I don't always know how familiar with astrology forum members are. It's enough to understand that another type of solar return wouldn't have Sun-Mercury in your first house, but in a more obscure position. Therefore it wouldn't matter what the combustion meant because it wouldn't be a keynote of the year. Sun-Mercury would be somewhere in the background of the solar return chart.

In a solar return chart all planets are not equal. Otherwise everyone's life would be the same for everyone whose solar returns occurred on any particular day of the year. It's the precise hour and minute of the return that sets the significant planets for the year. This is what makes one solar return chart for any one date different from all the others.

So due to the way I calculate solar returns, the Sun-Mercury conjunction doesn't appear in the first house as it does in the tropical chart. That's the simple explanation. Different methods of calculation produce different solar return charts. That is, planets appear in different houses, and there will be different ascendants. But, yes, that's for more advanced students of astrology who want to experiment with solar return charts, and can only be confusing to many students. My apologies.

Therese

Well I understand solar returns enough to focus on angular planets and those in tight conjunctions with natal, and I've seen certain themes played out enough even with planets in cadent or succedent houses. I can't easily reconcile the differences between sidereal and tropical mainly, but I guess that is an entire topic of its own. Maybe Siviam can tell us which system she prefers if any? Or why she asked about the state of solar return combust planets, what has her experience been. I'm very curious myself.

@wangshan,

Good to know that you found your exams stressful- that is what they are meant to be. It is represented in astrology and very much there.

Look at the fixed stars and south node.
http://i62.tinypic.com/qq5wdh.gif
your SR MC is conjunct Caput Algol.
SR South node is conjunct Saturn in the natal chart.
Jupiter retrograde in SR chart opposing Sun,Merc gives over optimism.
In effect, you were expecting a smooth sailing because of this Jupiter aspect.

Lastly, the 23 degree conundrum- benefic star Spica is conjunct Saturn- the 5th lord so when this degree get triggered you get exaggerated effects.


PD

Thank you pankajdubey, that is very enlightening. Especially Algol, I will have to research that. more later I'm at work!