Hi Matthew, thanks for your thoughts.

I?m still not sure what to think about the exalted Mars in Asc 2020 ingress.

Maybe Mars has the upper hand with the conjunction with Jupiter in Fall in 2020 chart, perhaps good for the people in an odd way if there was some sort of conflict - could be a Dunkirk/Blitz spirit, in a resolute Vera Lynn way because of Capricorn.

Less positive interpretation of exalted Mars; as James_M pointed out the exalted Mars square Sun earlier in 2018 chart is not looking so great if you go with what Leeman says:

?Either way you cut it, an Aries Ingress with Mars exalted in a partile square to the Sun looks like a war.? Her comment on the 1939 ingress chart, Mars will be at the same point in 2018 as it was in 1939 ingress chart. Mars is happy but setting up trouble for later perhaps or there is confidence in the people.

Still not sure what to make of Jupiter/Mercury in Fall/Detriment, they rule the 6th/12th house axis, and Moon/Venus are in the terms of Jupiter.

Elsewhere, China?s Communist chart has Jupiter at 22 deg Capricorn, so this will be a Jupiter return for China. With Pluto there as well as the other planets, maybe this could be a further indication of strengthening of China/Russia/BRICS relations, perhaps in military strategic terms because of Mars/Pluto. Jupiter?s optimism for popularity and gaining support/ruler of 11th in China?s chart and very long term international/internal development plans (Capricorn) may have no support from the West. Maybe the well known USA Pluto 2020 line up hints at that and a response.

Looking very roughly at the Valens? Minor Periods of the planets , Russia?s Saturn from 1990 chart will be active after 30 years = 2021. China?s 1949 Jupiter will be active every 12 years = 2021.

Other thoughts I?ve had, I?ve been playing with this lot to see if it has any relevance:

The Lot Of Fighting:
Mars to Moon, projected from Sun.

Dykes said this may perhaps be a mistake by the author, because we already have a similar lot projected from the Asc, so I wanted to test it. No mention if there is any reverse for nocturnal/diurnal charts. Maybe there is a mathematical reason for some of the links to this Lot I?ve spotted but it?s giving me a headache thinking about it.

Rough and ready look at UK Charts:

1802 - UK declares war on France, in ingress chart Saturn squares Fighting from 2 deg Sag to 2 deg Virgo. Also last triplicity shift of Saturn/Jupiter conjunction.

1899 - Boer war, fixed Asc on aries ingress so chart is valid for whole year incl. Oct start of war. Saturn squares Fighting from 26 deg Sag to Fighting at 26-27 deg Pisces.

1914 - WW1 ingress chart, Fighting opposes Venus ruler of Fighting which is in detriment in Aries. Although there are lot of other indications for trouble in that chart esp. Mars in Cancer with Moon.

1939 - WW2 Moon ruler of Fighting squares Fighting from 5 deg Aries to 5 deg Cancer.

2018 - In ingress chart, Moon squares Fighting from 6-7 deg Taurus to 6-7 deg Leo. Mars squares the ruler of Fighting - the Sun.

2020 - In ingress chart Mars ruler of Fighting squares Fighting from 22 deg Capricorn to 22 deg Aries, in bounds of Mars

Edit: Actually just realised something quite fundamentally wrong, I've got the chart for Russia wrong from the very start. I was looking at the wrong page in Campion so Russia's Saturn is at 4-5 Aquarius. So you can ignore everything about Russia

Whilst fixing fundamental error I made with Russia chart to begin with thought I would mention something else if it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere which it probably has somewhere.

Pluto crosses the ecliptic from its orbital inclination of 16-17 degrees in 2018-2020, so it crosses its own South Node. The last time this happened was in 1930 when it crossed ecliptic again at North Node. This was when Pluto was discovered as it was I assume more visible, and you had The Great Depression.

Phantastikon wrote: Pluto crosses the ecliptic from its orbital inclination of 16-17 degrees in 2018-2020, so it crosses its own South Node. The last time this happened was in 1930 when it crossed ecliptic again at North Node. This was when Pluto was discovered as it was I assume more visible, and you had The Great Depression.

thanks for a very interesting observation phantastikon.. i used to look at this infrequently, but i appreciate you bringing it to our attention!

i have in a book the north node of pluto at 20 cancer 33-34 over the years 2018-2020.. so indeed it is crossing over the south node at this time.

also - saturn north node at 23 cancer 49 is in the same general area here too..
jupiter north node is at 10 cancer 41 area as well..

one passing thought i had for the 2020 ingress for britian is the idea that someone else would be taking over the throne and queen victoria will no longer be the head of state... going on memory - i seem to recall the queens saturn on the midheaven in scorpio.. i wonder when she steps down and one of the young lads takes her place??

ot regarding the issue of conflict - great article some might enjoy reading here.. http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176007/ ... ing_/#more

Thanks, didn't know where Pluto's nodes were.

Interesting co-incidence is there is a New Moon/Partial Solar Eclipse on 12 July 2018 on Pluto's North Node at 20 deg Cancer exactly as Pluto opposing it at 20 deg Capricorn hits Pluto's South Node.

Whilst spotting that and now re-thinking Russian chart, the next total Lunar eclipse 27 July 2018 is at 4 deg Aquarius 45'. This is right on Russia's Saturn at 4 deg Aquarius 43'. I rarely look at such things and know little about interpreting them so make of that what you will.

I read the article; I get the geopolitical reasoning for suspecting conflict, and it seems everyone else is too - rather rapidly recently. In terms of finance George Saros has openly said now he fears conflict with Russia/China. Rothschild said something similar recently. We also have reports of Russia/China arming themselves very very rapidly. Russia rapidly updating nuclear missiles, massive NATO and Russian military exercises, US moving nukes to the UK, moving tanks to Europe. Not to mention China's extraordinary rather desperate deployment of artificial military islands no less.

So astrology aside I think it's getting safer to say by the day there is trouble expected down the line from many angles. I guess this is all about gauging astrologically just how serious this all could potentially get, and what indicators we can find for any actual conflict rather than just the financial/sanctions/currency conflicts of interest.

quote from ben dykes book "astrology of the world 11" which in turn is a translation from masha'allah's book 'scito horam introitus' - page 238 in dykes book - "chapter 61 "if in a revolution of the year you saw a thing about which you had fear, see if this coincides with a conjunction of saturn and jupiter in that same year: it will be more harsh and worse. 2. and if it did not coincide with one, it will be easier." and from page 121 of the same book "chapter 23. if you wished to turn the years of the world in which one should have fear, see whether there is a conjunction of saturn and jupiter in that same year: which if there were one, it will be more evil; and if there were not one, it will be easier. see page 121 chapter 23 in b dykes astrology of the world 11 for more details.

see the jupiter/saturn conjunction chart for 2020 in my saturn/pluto thread here on the mundane forum if interested..

local skyscript form member - cor scorpii, (goran) - has an interesting article up from march of this year on the topic of war... some here might like to read it as it is focused on mundane astrology and worth the read.. focused most on 2016, but lots to ponder..

https://7heavenastrology.wordpress.com/ ... n-part-ii/

Thanks, I'm trying to digest it there is a lot of detail there that is really fascinating and I'm already re-reading it over again. The Lot Of War, I didn't think about looking at a time before 2018 for some reason.

among astrologers - trad or modern - there has never been a full consensus on using lots.. for me - they are distance differentials applied to the ascendant - speaking generally.. i can see the merit in acknowledging a distance relationship and applying it to the ascendant for example.. but then, why not also acknowledge the importance of these same distance relationships any time by transit, or whatever predictive tech. you are working with that is equivalent in these other areas if one is singling out the importance of one in particular - in this example the lot of war? that is the part i don't get.. i see them as distance differentials between planets mostly applied to the ascendant to give an abstract point which is really a repeat of the distance.. that can show up a number of different ways! i suppose we all have to work with what we feel has the most merit, or follow in the footsteps of others until such time as we are convinced of the merits of a particular approach regardless who did or didn't use it.. i guess i am being contentious - something i am known for, lol..

regardless of that - i thought goran wrote a good article worthy of others attention..

I looked at the Lot of War thinking it would indicate something in common between all the ingress charts for differing cities as it unusually doesn't include the Asc in the calculation.

In natal charts I've used Zoller's suggestion of using the lot most relevant to the house or topic you are looking at which is time consuming house by house but does seem to work when I've tried it.

I use Fortune and Spirit a lot, in event charts they have revealed things such as in a recent robbery in London where the thieves were very lucky, Venus was on the Lot of Fortune when the alarm went off but the ruler of the Lot was the Moon applying to the 12th so they got caught.

I regret having been unable to participate in the forum when this thread started because it throws up some very interesting ideas. I suspect this is a thread we will need to revisit many times over the next few years.

Just a couple of comments. Traditionally, the chart for 2020 is not just a normal Aries ingress chart for that year but one that proceed a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. Some might argue it is a chart for the great mutation shifting from earth to air. But at the very least it is a great conjunction giving an overview of a twenty year period.

I have began some research into configurations of Aries ingress charts that proceeded a great conjunction. Its early days yet but I decided to look at prior ingress charts to a great conjunction in an air sign that involved a conjunction with Mars.

Rather alarmingly I note the last time this happened in Aquarius was a conjunction of 1345. Why is that period significant? 1346-7 were the years the Black Death , first appeared in Europe. By 1353 it has spread throughout the whole continent and estimates suggest 45?50% of Europe's total population died. Aquarius is traditionally a human sign so that affliction by a malefic can be indicative of a loss of human life.

This therefore affirms the point that Mars can also be indicative of disease and in this context a pandemic.

The combination of Pluto to this configuration gives more concern that this chart presages a traumatic time for the world.

Mark

i thought i would revisit this thread, triggered by vickis post and with fleur sharing a link that connects to this via the focus on jupiter/saturn conjunctions... here is the link fleur shared on the jupiter-saturn conjunction cycles..

ps - i didn't respond to your last post here mark, but i think you are correct in your speculation and it is very interesting..


http://mhunting.tripod.com/id8.html