James_M wrote:

the aries ingress chart 2015 for paris as 21 scorpio rising.. as the theory goes - this ingress chart becuase it has a fixed sign rising, is in effect for the full year.. now, as others have pointed out the transit of mars in opposition to the aries point, or where the sun was at the aries ingress is one of a few connections we can make back to the aries ingress chart. the other obvious one is the location of the transiting sun for the time of the terrorist act with the degree of the ascendant in the aries ingress chart.

the lunar eclipse of sept 28th also seems relevant given the mars/saturn square on the angles for paris.. mars, the ruler of the 8th in the le chart is on the ascendant in this chart. mars in the terrorist attack chart is 5 minutes off the mean nodal axis.. personally i like using the mean nodal axis myself..

finally - the total solar eclipse for march 20 2015 which took place at 29 pisces 27 is very close to the midheaven in the terrorist attack chart - 29 pisces 03. saturn in both charts is within about a 1/2 degree of each other..

Thanks James,

All relevant I feel. Good point about the Aries Ingress being Scorpio rising. Of course the pre-lunation chart was close to this at exactly 19.00 Scorpio. Traditionally known as ''The Accursed Degree of The Accursed Sign''.

Mark

thanks mark,

the thing about the fixed stars- i have never bought into, but i know that many others do, including many astrologers from the past.. i think it was an important part of the basis for peter stockingers comments on the charts too as i recall.. thanks for sharing regardless as others read these threads and they can use these ideas to develop more of their own ideas..

another point which i don't think i made is the solar eclipse from march 2015 - very close to the aries ingress data, but with the solar eclipse at 29 pisces 27.. this was also triggered by the mars position in the terrorist attack.. i recall seeing the same thing during 9-11 in the summer solar eclipse that happened at approx 0-1 cancer and the passage of mars in the 9-11 chart at 1 cap.. it seems that any time mars is in opposition to the eclipse point is a potentially dangerous place in terms of a mars transit.. it isn't fool proof and there are often too many solar and lunar eclipses to take into consideration, but it is an important comment i wanted to add. i can't remember if i did here or at marjories.. ps - i am no longer posting at marjories site as i am ideologically no longer comfortable with her site..

James_M wrote:

the thing about the fixed stars- i have never bought into, but i know that many others do, including many astrologers from the past.. i think it was an important part of the basis for peter stockingers comments on the charts too as i recall.. thanks for sharing regardless as others read these threads and they can use these ideas to develop more of their own ideas..

Well its all symbolism James. I have always loved using fixed stars and find they add a lot to the refinement of delineations. They are an integral part of the astrological tradition. But there are different ways to work with them. Of course its not compulsory. Similarly I guess I dont 'buy into' midpoints. Its partly style as I have a more traditional tool set and partly practicality since there is only so much one can include in a delineation once you have looked at signs, planets, houses, dignities and aspects.

However, the actual association of 19 Scorpio as an ''accursed degree' is unclear. It may have originally related to a malefic fixed star that would now be in early tropical Sagittarius. But noone seems to know for certain.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=823

i can't remember if i did here or at marjories.. ps - i am no longer posting at marjories site as i am ideologically no longer comfortable with her site..

Well her loss is Skyscript's gain. Marjory Orr is quite phenomenal in terms of all that detailed astrological analysis on her site she puts out daily. Her site is certainly worth looking at. Although for a more traditional perspective Peter Stockinger's blog is the place to go.

I tried to liaise with Marjory during my work on the Scottish referendum and research on a Scottish national chart. But we couldn't really agree on selected horoscopes and her very negative representation of all pro-independence Scots really alienated me. Of course she is originally from Scotland herself but has lived in England for most of her life.

Mark

Mark wrote:

ultimately [the 1st Republic chart is] a chart for French republican government not French national consciousness. I would have looked at the chart for the Storming of the Bastille for that.

Perhaps, and I did look at the Bastille charts, although I found that most astrologers in the past have used either 5th Republic or 1st Republic charts for research with events. I was more interested in seeing if any of the commonly used charts fitted closely with the recent attacks, or with the previous NM, LE or SE. I found that the 1st republic "new epoch" one worked best.

For example, in the Bastille 17:30 chart you favour, Moon is opp the SE Mercury, and the Asc (if 17:30 correct) is 2? conjunct Moon of the attacks.

But in 1st Rep/attacks we have Moon conj Moon; LE PF conj 1st rep Pluto and opposite 1st Rep Uranus, with that Ur/Pl axis on LE Venus+Asc and SE Mars; NN of attacks and eclipses on 1st Rep Sun; SE Mercury on 1st Rep Sun.

The Bastille chart is interesting when compared to the 1st Rep chart: 1st Rep Mars on Bastille NN, 1st Rep Venus opp Bastille Moon, and at 13:30 (start of the storming), Bastille Asc on what would be 1st Rep Jupiter. Both events, and both charts should be significantly identified with France.

Living in France, I'm not sure I agree that the storming and fall of the Bastille would take precedence over foundation of the Republic, new calendar etc. Perhaps for the rioting a few years ago. But in France, everyone always talks about "la R?publique", "Republican values" "an attack on the Republic", and this attack was clearly designed firstly to attack the Stade de France and probably to assassinate the "Pr?sident de la R?publique" (as he is always referred to, even when you have to say it fast) who was there. And as I said, most French astrologers seem to use one of the many charts for the founding of one of the the Republics (1st, 5th or sometimes 3rd).

Anyway, just for comparison I posting a link to a quinquewheel (tropical, true node, equal houses because I prefer to have Asc on left) with the start of attacks in the middle as the most surely timed, then LE, SE, 1st Republic and Bastille on the outside - which I've left at 13:30.

Maybe one of the links will paste the chart itself, but I can't seem to get that consistently, sorry.

Graham

(I've deleted the link to the chart, as SF generated an incorrect lunar return, as Wolfgang pointed out. I've reposted a correct 5-wheel on next page of this thread)

Here's the same quinquewheel I posted, but with the correct LE (in SF whole sign layout this time, rather than equal).


hebergement d image