Aries ingress chart 2016 for London - ascendent 9 Aquarius. Moon 23 Leo, PF 16 Virgo

thanks yuzuru,
looks like i had the formula backwards...i don't use the pof which partly explains this.. in regards to the ascendant of the lunation landing in the 7th is see placidus gives 61 degrees for the 7th house..

James_M wrote:

... in regards to the ascendant of the lunation landing in the 7th is see placidus gives 61 degrees for the 7th house..

Yes but over half of Virgo is intercepted in the 7th by any quadrant system used in medieval astrology such as Alcabitius or Porphyry.

The point would even apply in the equal system you use although more of Virgo falls in the 8th that way. The only way this doesn't apply is with whole sign houses.

If Yuzuru's prediction is correct I will be giving this method more attention.
Any chance you could tell us your source for this technique Yuzuru?

Mark

in previous times - and this is coming from my reading of abraham ibn ezra - the lunation prior to an ingress was used as ibn ezra didn't believe anyone could get the ascendant right to an ingress.. well, that is one simple rationale for using the lunation prior to an ingress.. no mention of using the part of fortune for any of ibn ezras mundane astrology either, as i was curious if i could find a reference, but couldn't, although i know horary astrologers like using the pof.. i don't know what yuzuru's approach is, other then what i see them articulating... being right or wrong on the vote here is another coin flip..

Bearing in mind how close the polls are and looking at the lunation and particularly that Mercury in Gemini close to the MC and opposite retrograde Saturn I am wondering if perhaps the result will be very close and there may be multiple recounts etc.

It depends how much weight we give to the lunation, both as a pre-ingress one and a pre-event one. I think since it is a full moon and therefore part way through a cycle I'd be inclined to give it more weight from a pre-event point of view than if it were a new moon, but the reverse logic for the pre-ingress situation, where the related new moon would have fallen under the influence of the Aries ingress.

What do others think?

James_M wrote:

In previous times - and this is coming from my reading of abraham ibn ezra - the lunation prior to an ingress was used as ibn ezra didn't believe anyone could get the ascendant right to an ingress.. well, that is one simple rationale for using the lunation prior to an ingress..

I still think it has validty. Time and again I have found a prior lunation chart more revealing than an event chart. Moreover, this wasn't some idiosyncracy of Ibn Ezra. Ptolemy was the first source to mention this. It was advocated by all the Perso-Arabic astrologers such as Abu Mashar and you find sources as late as Lilly & Morin in the 17th century using it. The latter is interesting as astronomical tables were much more sophisticated by that time.

James_M wrote:

no mention of using the part of fortune for any of ibn ezras mundane astrology either, as i was curious if i could find a reference, but couldn't, although i know horary astrologers like using the pof..

Hellenistic astrologers used the lot of fortune extensively for natal astrology and used it as an alternative starting point for charts. Your idea that its utility is confined to horary is not consistent with traditional sources. Yuzuru has studied all the Perso-Arabic astrologers like Sahl, Abu Mashar , Masha Allah etc. Ibn Ezra is only one astrologer. I haven't looked at him extensively on this although I have his book on mundane.

James_M wrote:

i don't know what yuzuru's approach is, other then what i see them articulating... being right or wrong on the vote here is another coin flip.

So it would seem! Still I have to say Yuzuru is outside the pack of traditional astrologers that have written on this. We shall see soon enough if that is a kudos or not for him.

Unfortunately, Yuzuru is worthy of a Greek oracle when it comes to expanding much on his ideas on this!

Mark

amelia - that sounds very possible regarding your astro observation and what we know from the msm on how close this is..

mark,
i was aware of your first paragraph.. i was just explaining my own understanding of one of the reasons why it was considered so important - one couldn't get the ascendant degree off an ingress back then... i never said it was some idiosyncrasy of only ibn ezra.. and for the record - eclipse data was considered quite relevant too, but i see no one working in any of that in their mundane prediction here!

regarding the pof... natal astrology isn't the same as mundane or horary.. i don't know about it's use in mundane and i doubt yuzuru is going to be providing us with ancient astrologers use of it in this regard..

i agree with your last line!

btw - thanks for your overview on camerons chart..

James_M wrote:

eclipse data was considered quite relevant too, but i see no one working in any of that in their mundane prediction here!

Just because I haven't posted my research on the great eclipse doesn't mean it doesn't exist James! It is actually the main reason I think we are having this referendum and why the issue of identity (esp English) has come to the fore.

Mark

hi mark,
i wasn't singling you out.. it is part of my confrontational approach! gets me in plenty of trouble too, lol..
i would be interested in what this ''''great''' eclipse is... to me they are all just eclipses.. why 'great' eclipse?

thanks
james

James_M wrote:

i would be interested in what this ''''great''' eclipse is... to me they are all just eclipses.. why 'great' eclipse?

I dont agree. There are eclipses and ECLIPSES!

I call this The Great Eclipse of March 20th 2015. From a UK/European outlook.

1 Visible in UK
2 Eclipse path close to Britain
3 Total eclipse
4 Last total eclipse visible in Europe until 2026
5 Eclipse fell on 29 Pisces degree of Moon in England 1066 chart
6 Eclipse fell near to POF 27'54 Pisces in UK (1801) chart
7 Eclipse fell near Uranus 00'37 Aries in UK (1927) chart
8 Eclipse fell on 29 Pisces degree of Venus (ASC ruler) in Treaty of Rome chart 1957
9 Eclipse fell on 29 Pisces degree of DESC in EEC chart 1958
10 Eclipse antiscia David Cameron's ASC in Libra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_ecl ... h_20,_2015

Mark

being misunderstood is a feature of my poor communication skills i guess...

i didn't know what you meant by ''great'' eclipse... now i see what you mean.. the first 3 seem relevant... i am not sure about the relevance of the last """total""" eclipse, as opposed to '''partial''' eclipse... either way it would seem europe and the uk are being eclipsed, lol...

the solar eclipse for march 20th 2015 at 29 pisces 27 is very close to the full moon lunation for june 20th 2016 at 29 sag/gemini 32... wouldn't this be somewhat relevant for those who want to examine the lunation prior to this brexit vote?

i am not sure where you are getting this data for - 4 Last total eclipse visible in Europe until 2026.. to me it looks as though the uk will see a few total solar eclipses before 2026... aug 21 2017 is above the horizon for the uk as is july 2 2019 se and i am not looking at the lunar eclipses either..