James wrote:

i am not sure where you are getting this data for - 4 Last total eclipse visible in Europe until 2026.. to me it looks as though the uk will see a few total solar eclipses before 2026... aug 21 2017 is above the horizon for the uk as is july 2 2019 se and i am not looking at the lunar eclipses either..

First off I obviously wasn't referring to visible lunar eclipses. These are far more common.

Regarding solar eclipses look at the eclipse paths James. The eclipse of August 2017 is far more significant for North America and the USA in particular. Some are already describing it 'The Great American Eclipse''. Yes there are other eclipses just visible in Europe. But Europe is on the extreme periphery of visibility for this eclipse in 2017. Others coming up are not visible here at all as the eclipse path is too far from us. For example the July 2019 eclipse you mention is in the southern hemisphere over Latin America. When I state 'us' I really mean Britain and Western Europe. The 2017 eclipse you mention will be very unimpressive from Britain. If we look at the obscuration of the Sun by these eclipses located for London the 2011 solar eclipse was an 84% obscuration of the solar disk. The 2017 eclipse you describe will obscure the Sun in London by less than half a percent. Hardly even noticeable here.

I know a lot of astrologers make little or no distinction on whether a solar or lunar eclipse is visible from their location (and if so how much). Personally, though I think this is an error. I follow the ancient idea that a solar eclipse's impact is greater the more the light of the solar disk is obscured by the Moon in a particular location. Ptolemy makes this point.

If you want to check out the data on any solar or lunar eclipse in history I strongly recommend the NASA Eclipse explorer website. To find out data on eclipses on any location in any historical period do the following:

1 Choose of geographical continent
2 Choose a city
3 Select a century

NASA Solar Eclipse explorer:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JSEX/JSEX-index.html

NASA Lunar Eclipse explorer:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JLEX/JLEX-index.html

Mark

hi mark,

i have read a number of books on eclipses, in an attempt to understand them better.. obviously an eclipse that is visible in a particular location is more relevant then one that isn't! this term ''''great''' in reference to eclipses is a new one on me, that's all... 'great american eclipse'' etc. etc...

i think the distinctions you are making are relevant, although i haven't seen much in the way of astrological translation beforehand - mostly it is all after the fact if even that.. thanks for suggesting the nasa eclipse explorer website.. i think i had visited it before - a few years ago. it is a cool site with the kinds of details you mentioned previously..

OK WELL DONE Mark!

Eclipses ?

Now you are talking.

Surely you are looking for an Eclipse to activate the 7th house in the chart of the UK or EU.

Can we have a list of recent Eclipses.

Clearly the Great Eclipse of 2015 is very close to THE CRITICAL POINT in Aries.

Now you've got my attention.

But the Eclipse energy needs to be reactivated now by a transiting planet if it is going to have an affect. Else it lies dormant.

But I think you are on to it. I use the 1801 chart. The Great Eclipse falls close to opposition to UK's Uranus.

Further, prior Eclipses must have run thru Aries in the 7th and that is the house to watch, NOT least that the Uk's NN lies there.

Can we have previous Eclipse data too.

But still you need a transiting planet to activate the Eclipse this week.

Where is it ?

Is Uranus transiting a previous Eclipse in Aries and in the Uk's 7th House just now ??

Lunar Eclipse of the 8th Oct 2014 close.

So the last point is does an EU chart get hit in the 7th house or a 7th house ruler by these recent Eclipses ?

H

Hi Rocko,

I simply haven't the time to pick up all the numerous questions you have fired at me.

But if you want to do some homework yourself here are some useful resources:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/eclipse.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/eclipserules.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/eclipsecarter.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/shipelwell.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/kingscross.html

https://starsandstones.wordpress.com/tag/william-lilly/

Mark

I know the answers to those pointers I've given you and the rest of the thread so insight.

Once the best chart has been selected the question is do any of the past say 10 Eclipses, Solar or Lunar, fall on relevant planets or angles or house cusps.

For the question of Treaty changes it is a 7th house issue.

And then if you find a recent Eclipse say within the last 5 years max that fulfils the above is it receiving a transit now?

And I think you are looking at Uranus as a trigger or natal.

I don't believe any of the above are fulfilled correctly, and none receiving a transit from a significantly powerful planet.

I can see why we've had loads of turbulence because of the recent Eclipses in Aries and Pisces in the UK 7th but as thee are no direct activations in anyway I still say XEXXXX wins!

UK's Uranus in around 1? Libra is close but again where is the activating transiting planet?

H

Comparing UK chart with the Single European Act in 1993, I have noticed that huge and permanent changes have taken place in the UK.
Now there is no such strong indicators and changes can not be so significant like 1993

David Cameron doesn't have at the moment any signs of bad period or losing his position. ( on the forum I have already predicted Cameron victory in the last elections )

The biggest changes can only happen with the agreement on accession to the EEC in 1973, where some significant formally - legal changes can happend

Alex

Rocko wrote:

I know the answers to those pointers I've given you and the rest of the thread so insight.

Why why are you posting questions you claim to already know the answer to? I find your attitude quite frustrating.

If you have research to back up your points great. Share it here. I am sure other people would enjoy seeing it. If your not going to share anything meaningful why are you posting?

Once the best chart has been selected the question is do any of the past say 10 Eclipses, Solar or Lunar, fall on relevant planets or angles or house cusps.

That is the problem Rocko. What is the best chart? The Aries ingress, a UK national chart, the EU chart?

Rocko wrote:

For the question of Treaty changes it is a 7th house issue.

Not sure I agree. I can think of several other houses or points that could be relevant. 9th house=legal/international matters, 10th house=changes to government, 1st house=changes to national identity. But as noted above eclipse of 2015 fell on the DESC of EEC chart and Moon of 1066 chart. Also Uranus of UK (1927)

Rocko wrote:

And then if you find a recent Eclipse say within the last 5 years max that fulfils the above is it receiving a transit now?

Personally, I wouldn't go further than the time of a mars return which is just under 2 years. 5 years is too far back for me.

Rocko wrote:

And I think you are looking at Uranus as a trigger or natal.

Says who? Well Charles Carter said Mars or the Sun squaring a point could be the activator of an eclipse. Uranus is usually far too slow.

Rocko wrote:

I don't believe any of the above are fulfilled correctly, and none receiving a transit from a significantly powerful planet.

I can see why we've had loads of turbulence because of the recent Eclipses in Aries and Pisces in the UK 7th but as thee are no direct activations in anyway I still say XEXXXX wins!

Thats fine. Looks like your heavily relying on the 1801 chart. I am not trying to push a particular view here. I just gave what I saw. You may well be right judging by the polls for the referendum.

Rocjo wrote:

UK's Uranus in around 1? Libra is close but again where is the activating transiting planet?

I actually use the UK 1927 chart as much as 1801 chart. Eclipse of 2015 was very close to Uranus in the 1927 chart. But we shall see soon enough.

Mark

Some more articles that have appeared on the EU referendum.

Firstly, another piece on the EU referendum looking at the opening of poll chart by Tania Daniels. Tania is a German astrologer based in Italy who writes in English, German and Italian! The embodiment of European integration. Tania works from a traditional outlook and uses hellenistic techniques. She sees it as a very close run contest indeed with weaknesses for both sides but a narrow leave victory as the outcome.

http://www.taniadaniels.com/stay-in-the ... eferendum/

Although I previously used a rather eclectic approach to houses in my piece on the opening of poll chart the whole sign houses used by Tania gives some additional insights as I reflect on this. Firstly, the Moon as Lord 1 /Remain campaign is placed in the 8th house by WSH. I initially thought of foreign finance with this placement but after the death of MP Jo Cox this signification obviously has a new interpretation which is highly appropriate. Similarly, Saturn Rx falls in the 6th house with WSH which traditionally was the house of 'slaves' which fits the lower class support predominating for the leave campaign. I must say If I was looking at this question using exclusively WSH I would have been less likely to predict a Brexit. Saturn Rx seems a position of real weakness. If I have got this wrong I will give more weight to WSH in mundane questions in the future.

Secondly, Liz Hathway has concluded her excellent series of articles on the astrology of Britain and the EU. This is Part III. I do recommend reading all her articles in the series. Liz has predicted a remain vote.

http://astrologieblog.nl/2016/06/17/ast ... -part-iii/

Mark

I am thinking that the Chiron station on Monday 27th June at 25 degrees Pisces 15 minutes, to go retrograde, is significant for how this vote will go.

I know the results are supposed to be out on Friday 24th June, but wonder if the count will get delayed until Monday, when Chiron is actually retrograde?

Has anybody observed Chiron stations to see exactly when the retrograde or direct effect actually happens? It could be that the station itself is powerful and pre-empts the retrograde?

mark,

thanks for the additional astro links on this! hathway seems to have a sanguine attitude towards cameron, as opposed to farage or boris j's intentions here.. i find that interesting! it looks like he gets a pass becuase he is a libra or something!! those lovely libras could never be motivated by self interest!!!!! they must obviously have everyone else's best interests at heart, lol... but aside from that - i really enjoyed her article...

i haven't read the first article yet, but it is interesting what you mention about the location of the 1st/7th house rulers for the opening chart.. i will look at it next.. thanks! james

addendum 1

reading an article right now that captures another aspect of cameron!
" A senior Turkish official has accused UK Prime Minister David Cameron of abandoning Ankara in its bid to join the EU as the PM fights his Brexit referendum campaign.

Chief presidential adviser ?lnur ?evik said the Cameron?s apparent U-turn had left Turks ?flabbergasted,? because Cameron had previously been very supportive of Ankara joining the bloc.

Cameron said in May that Turkey would not become an EU member state ?until the year 3000? ? a statement which shocked some observers in the country." one could say he was talking to the home crowd on this one, while he might say another thing to a different crowd - another feature of a libran temperament that i have picked up on over the years...

not picking on cameron here - just pointing out how he can be perceived a few different ways, dependent on the situation! - mirror, mirror on the wall - who is the fairest of them all!!! that's libra by my read!

addendum 2

regarding the first link from tania daniels "Stay in the EU or leave it? An horary view on the UK referendum" it is interesting to me that a horary approach can be taken.. what is the question? how does one apply horary rules to this? i am not saying it isn't possible, but it seems to turn the concept of horary into some type of magic ball for mundane events which i am not sure it can do! i guess it is a conversation for another thread.. - thanks again for linking to both mark..

Mark referred to the Moon being in the WS 8th house of the Openng Poll chart perhaps having a connection with the murder of the MP. In addition to that I have noticed that the star Alpheratz culminates at 7.02 am on the Opening Poll chart. Alpheratz is in the constellation Andromeda and is the chained, sacrificed woman. For instance Jupiter conjoined Alpheratz on the day of the execution of Anne Boleyn. The murder of the MP may have affected the outcome of this referendum and the chart may be telling us this.

I happened to look at the 1801 UK chart posted earlier in this thread. I was struck by the fact that Uranus rising at 1 Libra 53 in that chart is opposed by the MC of the Poll Opening chart at 1 Aries 49 ! Somewhat uncanny that both Cameron and Johnson have Libra rising in line with this chart.

I said earlier that I am something of a hybrid modern/traditional astrologer (of sorts!). I admire both Vettius Valens and Charles Carter!. I have used Symbolic Arc directions ( a la Charles Carter) allied with "Arabic" parts with some success in my research.

I decided to apply the symbolic directions of Cameron and Johnson to the Opening Poll chart.

There is quite a list of directions that both men have to this chart but
my attention was drawn to the fact that Cameron's North node at 6 Cancer 17 conjoins Venus at 6 Cancer 40 in the Opening Poll first WS house. This is the planet to which the Moon next applies albeit by quincunx. Johnson's directed Jupiter at 7 Cancer 45 also conjoins, but at a wider orb of 1 degree 6.

If the birth times are correct for both men and Mark is confident about the birth times then I am quite impressed by Johnson's directed MC of 4 Virgo 52 to the Pars Hyleg of the Opening Poll chart at 3 Virgo 36.
Also Cameron's directed Pars Hyleg at 21 Pisces 57 effects a Grand Trine with Mars and the Ascendant of the OP chart. The ancients did not look upon Grand Trines favourably !

When I first started looking at the astrology of the referendum I took the view that Johnson could not come not badly out of this even if the Leave campaign lost. I figured that if the Remain campaign won then Cameron himself would have only a pyrrhic victory. It's Saturn in the WS 6th conjoining Rastaban that makes me think that way. This Saturn conjoins his Part of Fortune and is the planet to which the Moon makes its next traditional aspect (sextile).

Just a few observations !

hi vicki,

it is great you are participating here and i have enjoyed both your posts!~ thanks.

there are so many layers of 'symbolic' directions, progressions, profections and etc to consider, it is fun to see what others are looking at while keeping in mind no one can see it all!

regarding solar arc directions, i happen to note camerons sa mercury at 24 sag - squared onto his natal saturn.. mercury rules his 9/12 houses while saturn rules his 4/5 natal houses.. the 4th is the the 8th to the 9th is you think like some of the indian systems of considering house relationships.. and the 12th is the 8th to the 5th! bottom line is bringing together 2 planets by solar arc has to be supported back to the natal chart as i see it.. the natal relationship between mercury at 4 scorpio and saturn at 24 pisces - 140 degrees of separation is favourable by sign anyway, so maybe not so bad bringing these 2 together.. the sa angles are more important anyway.. cameron has sa ascendant at 21 scorpio - basically conjunction his natal neptune.. i think that is negative overall.. going back to the sa mercury at 24 sag.. 24 sag is the degree of the descendant in the 2015 great eclipse... too many solar arc connections to look at - sa jupiter on his natal uranus - i think that is lucky, but someone else might view it differently...

this is one of the attractions to a system like what i had read of using the profection lord in combo with the solar return to figure out which planet is most central to a chart for any time period... as mark pointed out - mars is the profected lord and the solar return highlights mars too! in the sa directions sa venus - ruler of camerons ascendant and sun - squaring onto his natal mars... now, is that good or bad? seriously! i think it is net negative myself.. overall pic for me can be simplified like how liz hathway does it - would have been better to push the referendum date out to when jupiter was going into libra! on balance i think his chart is dealing with headwinds here.

in boris's chart the sa angles highlight his natal mars in the 9th sign.. and sa mars is 45 natal uranus.. its interesting in so far as the relocated chart i have for him to london has mars right on the descendant - so he must be perceived in some combative way generally to the folks in london.. the relocated chart - solar return has a uranus/midheaven conjunction at 23 aries which i think is an important degree in some of these uk charts.. come to think of it, that is where transiting eris and ceres are too! that is fairly striking and could mean he is the surprise man of the hour here, lol... either that, or it is lights out on boris, lol...

once you throw in the relocated stuff, the trad folks didn't cover it in the past... i can only read so many abu mashar, or ben dyke translations and i get lost in the myriad possibilities that haven't even been taken into account by these folks and get laughed off the astrological stage!

i think it helps if one lives close to the place where the focus is.. in this case that would be the uk/britain.. i haven't a real clue how these people are perceived and i don't have a clue on how horrible and conflicted this brexit process has been.. i mostly see it as a david verses goliath type situation and i always root for the underdog.. that would be the poor people who don't generally benefit from much economically.. so, i am not only a confused astrologer, i am biased too~ ultimately i see everyone as losing long term, while the 1% continue to clean up.. i would be voting to alter that if i could.. sorry i got off track with my usual longwindedness.

ot - i liked this opinion piece on the issue of brexit..
https://www.sott.net/article/320733-Bri ... conclusion