http://www.270towin.com/2016-polls-clinton-trump/

Latest poll results in the 4 states Trump is targeting:

Florida: HRC 43% Trump 42%

Ohio: HRC: 43% Trump 42%

Pennsylvania: HRC 47% Trump 41%

North Carolina: HRC 43% Trump 42%

No polls for 8 states and the District of Columbia.

Trump has large leads in 12 states (120 votes), moderate leads in 3 others (18 Votes). TOTAL VOTES 138.

HRC has strong leads in 19 states (255 votes), moderate leads in 1 other (7 votes). TOTAL VOTES 262.

The other 7 states have poll results within 1 or 2 points.

No Polls 8 states
Trump leads 15 states
HRC leads 20 states
Close 7 states
TOTAL 50 states

If HRC holds on to the states where she currently leads she only has to take 1 of the following to reach or exceed 270:

Ohio, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Missouri, Louisiana,Texas, or Arizona.

If she cannot get any of them a combination of 2 or 3 states with smaller delegate counts will get her to beyond 270 as the smallest delegate count for any state is 3.

Thanks Unique for the update - previously Mark had advised three swing states were the deciders

As for the Astrology I belatedly join in after the excitement of the Brexit Plebiscite and had been thinking about how to assign the rival contenders in the ingress charts

I can see three options here and in other places. the 10th house as the current power and the 4th the rival

The contender to the first and the current power to the 7th as rival

Now that the two candidates are chosen we are presented with Trump as the likely choice of the "lesser folk" and HRC as the establishment. In mundane we could therefore suggest Trump as the people Lord 1 and though the current incumbent cannot stand HRC as his successor to the 10th (arguably)

but looking at the Aries Ingress the latter seems best

With that in mind we see Mars as candidate for LOY as he is close to ASC but he lacks major dignity in Sag but is managed by Jupiter who is also in poor celestial state but is in the midheaven. He however has a partile square from malefic Saturn so not good

Mars can be rebellious people and in this chart Saturn should be natural significator of Kings and his political opponents are Jupiter. Jupiter occupies the 10th at this stage but Saturn is in the house of the people

As a secondary the Moon is full shortly after the equinox and technically she applies to Mars but about two days later moves to Saturn. This implies support for Jupiter the contender moving to the king.

Mars occupies the 1st so I take to be the people and their champion Jupiter

As for the axis of 10/4 all we see are opposing forces in detriment. Now the candidates are chosen it seems like the choice between who is more dreadful than the other - although in their own unique way

The good of the King is adjudged from Fortuna and her lady the moon is in the optimal ninth house in Leo the house of a benefic. This symbolism suggests an older woman not quite on the throne but in influence

Nevertheless we need to consider Mercury as her planet

Looking at the Fall ingress it looks bad for Trump. Mars is now fallen away from the ASC Jupiter is now combust so lacks power
D
Mercury - HRC is dignified and two degrees away from the dragon's head indicating increase and is in the 10th of rulership . The moon is Mercury's house and applies to Mars but in opposition indicating defeat for the people and by Implication Trump


Hillary's fortunate Mercury clearly shows that she will be back in White House and this time wearing the pants

Matthew Goulding

Mjacob wrote:

Thanks Unique for the update - previously Mark had advised three swing states were the deciders

Yes. Previously it was Ohio, Pennslyvania and Florida were the key target states for Trump. But since then Trump's position has deteriorated in the polls so that a previously safe looking Republican state like North Carolina has become an additional potential swing state. So Trump's 'to do list' has got even longer.

Mjacob wrote:

As for the Astrology I belatedly join in after the excitement of the Brexit Plebiscite and had been thinking about how to assign the rival contenders in the ingress charts

I can see three options here and in other places. the 10th house as the current power and the 4th the rival

The contender to the first and the current power to the 7th as rival

Now that the two candidates are chosen we are presented with Trump as the likely choice of the "lesser folk" and HRC as the establishment. In mundane we could therefore suggest Trump as the people Lord 1 and though the current incumbent cannot stand HRC as his successor to the 10th (arguably).

There have been a few astrological articles using the the ingress charts circulated. Nina Gryphon did an analysis the Aries ingress, Peter Stockinger the Libra ingress while in two recent articles Lars Panaro has done both! I will add in the links here if you want to take a look.

All use the 10th to incumbent/4th to challenger approach. The kind of argument I think being used is that Clinton is like what we would understand as a member of the old dynasty seeking to wear the crown (I know its a republic!) while Trump is the real outsider from a new clan seeking the throne.

Still, it remains a fact Clinton is not President elect so she is competing for the role just like Trump.

Traditionally, the initiator in a contest is usually assigned the ASC but in the US the date of the election is set out in the constitution so noone effectively initiates the contest by setting the date or time of the election. A similar situation has existed in the UK since the General Election of 2015 since the fixed term Parliament Act now defines the date of our next general election. However, the consensus seems to be that the incumbent party in office is assigned the DESC while the party challenging to take the Presidency is assigned the ASC. Praxis also seems to support this approach.

For what its worth I tend to differentiate between naturally derived astronomically defined charts ie ingress and pre-lunation and charts for elections set by human decision making. In the former I favour a 10th vs 4th approach while in the latter I would go with a 1st vs 7th approach. The latter utilises Guido Bonattis ideas for an open battle chart.

But as Yuzuru's question alluded to the results in the Congressional election are often different to the Presidential elections. Its quite common to have a Democratic President elected but have a result giving Republican controlled Congress or vice versa. So when assessing the election using more generalised methods like an ingres, pre-lunation or opening of poll chart doesn't the chart show the potentially mixed fortune of a party in the Presidential and Congressional elections?

I haven't noticed any astrologers taking this consideration into account yet it surely an important element for anyone seeking to make a prediction in this way.

At present we have the Democrats in power in the White house and the Republicans in control in both houses of Congress. An ingress indicating a flow to the Democrats could therefore indicate a shift of power in Congress. Especially, in the senate where the Deomcrats only require 4 seats to win control of the upper house.

Mark

Yuzuru wrote:

thanks, Mark, could you suggest some important events for the two?

Gosh Yuzuru that simple question is very complicated to find a quick answer to!

I should say i have never sought to thoroughly research this topic. But I think one can look at this either politicallly in terms of dates for dramatic shifts in party control of the two chambers or look at crucial legislation passed by the two houses.

If you are looking to seismic shifts in the composition of the one or both houses there is obviously the two yearly Congressional elections.

House of Representatives-All House Representatives serve a two year term. Elections are held both during the year of the Presidential election and in period two year years after these. These are known as midterm elections

Senate-Senators are elected for a six year term. Every two years a third of senatorial seats come up for re-election.

As I stated above I think you can look out for elections when the either the House of representatives or senate changed hands.

It obviously more common for the House of Representatives where all seats are contested every two years.

But a shift in the composition of the Senate is rarer due to the fact only a third of seats are contested every couple of years.

Midterm elections often put the opposition party into control of the House of representatives. This happened to to Bill Clinton and to Obama in his first mid term elections in 2010. The House of Representatives has been under Republican party control since then.

This link gives you the changing political composition of the Congress in elections going back to the Civil War::

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

You will notice above the years for these elected houses are not the same as the election year. That is because new Representatives and Senators do not not take office immediately after the election in November. As with the Presidency there is a time delay. The Constitution stipulates that Congressmen take the oath of office on the 3rd of January in the following year. Hence the actual terms of the next Congress will run Jan 2017-Jan 2019.

As I suggested the other way to examine these charts is with legislation passed. Key examples include Constitutional amendments such as the abolition of slavery and granting women the vote or Congress approval of votes to go to war. In terms of social policy things like the legislation for the New Deal seem important and Civil Rights legislation such as the Voting Reform act 1965 which sought to sweep away almost a century of racist electoral fraud and gerrymandering against black voters in the south.

I will research a few links for you. But as you can see though this subject requires quite a lot of work and I dont think there is a quick fix. But if your looking for a pragmatic approach I would put more time into studying elections where one party took over effective control in one or both houses.

Mark

I am looking at the chart posted by Nina Gryphon right now but have not seen the other articles

I will edit my previous asap

Matthew

I had sourced the data for the make up of Congress some time ago but only used data beginning 10 years before the Great Depression to show Republican majority's in Congress and control of the Presidency preceded the depression and the 2008 financial crash that involved the world's economies.

http://i.imgur.com/TzcUb5K.png
[/img]

Hi, Mark, thanks for the source, I though that both sides alternated frequently, but apparently many decades can go by with one party ruling the congress, independent of ruling president.

Thanks Unique_ Astrology. I had noticed these trends and was about to write about them but your table is much easier to follow. Thanks for that.

Yuzuru wrote

Hi, Mark, thanks for the source, I though that both sides alternated frequently, but apparently many decades can go by with one party ruling the congress, independent of ruling president.

Yes I only noticed these trends after providing you with the links.

But actually there are often connections if you keep in mind which party controlled the Presidency rather than focusing on particular Presidents. Its interesting to notice which Presidents had to work with a Congress dominated by the opposition party.

1921-1933 Republican Presidents
(Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover)

1933-1953 Democratic Presidents
(Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry Truman)

1953-1961 Republican President
(Dwight Eisenhower)

1961-1969 Democraric Presidents
(John F Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson)

1969-1977 Republican Presidents
(Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford)

1977-1981 Democratic President
(Jimmy Carter)

1981-1993 Republican Presidents
(Ronald Reagan and George Bush)

1993-2001 Democratic President
(Bill Clinton)

2001-2009 Republican President
(George W Bush)

2009-2017 Democratic President
(Barack Obama)

Mark

amymaddalozzo wrote:There are several things that jump out about Trump's chart: Solar Arc Uranus is squaring natal MC--at the same time, transiting Uranus is starting to aspect his natal venus, the ruler of his 10th house. That tells me some big surprise. Also, solar arc pluto is starting to conjunct natal pluto while transiting Jupiter will enter libra soon. maybe Trump will be surprised and VERY GLAD that he did not win-we will find out AMY

Just catching up on this thread.

I think the 8:02 am time is radical, but "radical" can be different than "correct."

I looked at solar arcs, as well; and also noted that solar arc Uranus squaring Trump's MC on election day. With the 8:02 am time, Clinton's solar arc Uranus conjuncts her MC.

I think this is significant. With all of the sensible comments posted above about the astrological issues, a plain meaning of Uranus is "sudden change." A plain meaning of the MC is one's vocation and public image. (Put 'em together and what have you got?) Both candidates otherwise have some good, some less good solar arcs, but clearly becoming president-elect or a former presidential nominee is a sudden change of public image.

I would go so far as Uranus conjunct MC on a key date is one argument for the 8:02 am birth time.

Then it might be worth reminding us that the presidency is not even noted in the Declaration of Independence, on which the often-used and seemingly radical Sibly chart for the US "birth date" is based. The presidency is instituted in the US Constitution. I'll come back later with some thoughts on it.

I use Symbolic Arcs which are slightly faster than Solar Arcs particularly with a summer birth chart as with Donald Trump. By either method his directed Uranus has been setting off his natal T Square ? MC square Asc. conjoin Mars opposing Part of Fortune for at least two years.

By symbolic arc this direction of Uranus has just reached his radical Mars and in October will oppose his Part of Fortune exactly and then in nearly 2 years? time will reach his Asc. at which time the effect will lessen.

As far as transiting Uranus is concerned it reached his natal Saturn/Venus conjunction in June this year but because Uranus goes retrograde at 24 Aries 40 it doesn?t actually reach Venus until May 7th 2017 so this Uranus transit will have been playing out for nearly a year.

On the day of the election Uranus will have reached 21 Aries 34 by retrograde, worryingly only 35 arc minutes from the star Baten Kaitos, a very turbulent star in the constellation of Cetus the sea monster. In fact Uranus will be backwards and forwards over this star until February 2017 when it finally moves away.

Significantly this transiting Uranus is applying by retrograde to a trine aspect to Donald Trump?s radical South Node/Moon conjunction in his WS 5th house which will become exact on the 19th November. Uranus first made this trine aspect in April this year so this is another ongoing configuration in Trump?s chart.

I agree that Uranus will be important for Hillary Clinton also. On Election day the Moon at 25 Aquarius 39 will make a sextile aspect to Venus at 25 Sagittarius 39 which opposes Hillary Clinton?s radical Uranus at 25 Gemini 55 (even with an uncertain birth time this is something we can say for definite). This is a very tight applying aspect with only a 16 arc minute orb.

This same lunar aspect to Venus makes a quincunx aspect to Donald Trump?s radical Venus with only a 5 arc minute orb. The Moon then moves to a conjunction with Donald Trump?s Part of Fortune. Remember his Part of Fortune conjoined the Moon in his nomination acceptance chart.

This particular configuration of his radical Venus in his 12th, transiting Venus in his 5th (conjoining his radical South Node/Moon) and the Moon transiting his7th conjoining his Part of Fortune makes what apparently is known by the moderns as a Yod or Finger of Fate which is defined as ?when one planet is quincunx two others which are sextile to each other).

It remains to be seen how these very disruptive Uranus transits will play out.

waybread wrote: Just catching up on this thread. radical, but "radical" can be different than "correct."

I like that and look forward to further

Mark - thanks again for your previous reply - as to the 4th house 10th question the conveniently placed MC is virgo and the DSC is Gemini in the Ingress

Earlier you mention making a Fall Ingress but in the meantime I have added a few points to my previous posting 9th Aug am

and will add more later

Matthew

mjacob, my idea on radicality comes from Geoffrey Cornelius, The Moment of Astrology. He notes that the "wrong" time or chart can nevertheless give information that is extremely appropriate and useful. Ultimately we'll probably never know Clinton's correct birth time or the event moment for the beginning of the USA. But if a chart consistently produces information that aptly describes the person or event, and that works well with predictive methods, then maybe that's enough to ask of it.

Similarly, astrologers have debated the correct moment for the US Constitution: not only do we not have a correct time; but the writing and ratification process went through multiple stages. There would be several reasonable candidates for the event date.

If I could mention this without the trads throwing shoes at me ( (just kidding,) in the solar arc chart for the Astrodienst Astro-DataBank Constitution, solar arc asteroid Hillary for November 8 applies to a close conjunction with the "natal" moon ("the people") in the 10th house ("party in power.") Unfortunately there isn't a namesake asteroid for Donald Trump.