Mark, thanks for the infill-- I take your point, although mine was a little different. I mentioned presidents whose health problems seem a lot more serious than those known for Clinton. As voters determine whether they think Clinton and Trump are sufficiently fit for office, some historical perspective should indicate that past presidents with health problems nevertheless did their demanding jobs while in office.

We could also mention Janet Reno having Parkinson's disease while Attorney General, candidate John McCain having melanoma, and so on.

The mainstream press, at least, are starting to admit their double standard.

Therese, one commonality between HC and Robbins is their major social conscience, which manifested at an early age. HC got into child and family law while a student at Yale, and worked on enhancing the status of children when she moved to Arkansas-- a poor southern state. Robbin's concern for the poor is similar.

If a candidate withdraws, dies, is incapacitated, &c before the election, the political party nominates a replacement. The DNC and RNC leadership does this without the benefit of further primaries or having to refer to the past ones. The closer this would get to the election, however, the more problematic it would become, as ballots get pre-printed well in advance, notably for states allowing early voting.

Beyond this stage, see: http://teachinghistory.org/history-cont ... rian/20431

Waybread wrote:

Therese, one commonality between HC and Robbins is their major social conscience, which manifested at an early age. HC got into child and family law while a student at Yale, and worked on enhancing the status of children when she moved to Arkansas-- a poor southern state. Robbin's concern for the poor is similar.

Yes, that is a very important similarity between Hillary and Robbins. What would you point to in the charts to explain the strong social conscience they both shared?

Thanks Therese for your research on astrological degrees. I should say I am in no way wedded to the 02.08am chart. I simply put it up as i dont think this chart has had any discussion anywhere before. So my analysis was more of a thought experiment with the chart.

I am in the process of developing a detailed timeline of about 50 key events in Clinton's life to assist rectification. But before we get to this kind of process there are more broad stroke methods.

First off determining the sect light in the chart and its predominator. This is something Patrick Watson discusses in his excellent article on rectifying Clinton's chart.

http://www.patrickwatsonastrologer.com/ ... irth-time/

I should say Astrodatabank needs an update as there are other sources supporting a time around 08.00am. Both Theodore White and Larry Schwimmer claim to have sourced the time from sources. Larry Scwimmer states he spoke to an astrologer who did a consultation for Clinton some years back. The 08.02am time was derived from that. The consultation came about in 2008 through a suggestion of one of Clinton's staffers.

Overall I do have a problem with the 02.08 chart in that it makes the Moon in Pisces the ruler of time. Moreover, it is angular in the 02.08 chart by any house system. This doesn't seem to fit Clinton's basic character that well. Many of the attributes ascribed to her seem to be more consistent with a Scorpio Sun being emphasized. I have a similar problem with the 8pm chart which gives us tropical Gemini rising.

Mark

Therese, I don't see Robbins' chart posted now, so I can't comment.

In Clinton's chart, the 8:02 am birth time gives her a moon in Pisces in the 5th house, which should translate as compassion for children.

dropping out seems like a pretty drastic move here... strikes me like some kind of uranus thing if it was to happen... mind you, uranus prominent by predictive techniques can mean radical change in opposite directions - both positive and negative... in looking for something to suggest this, i note solar arc uranus at 5 degree virgo - which happens to be the midheaven on the 8:02am chart.. i see sa midheaven is square pluto in leo as well - so that is further strength for the 802am chart if indeed hillary pulls out here.

i have found pluto by the various predictive tools astrologers use to not generally be supportive of a win in politics... i think back to kerrys loss to bush as one recent example.. i think mccain might have been another one - but can't recall for sure.. kerry definitely..

i remember working on that 802am chart and thinking the time was off and it needed to be about 5 minutes earlier - 3 virgo 47 on the 757am chart which is what i liked more... part of it is the data off chelseas chart lines up well with that... well chelseas sun at almost 9 pisces strengthens the 208am chart too due the connection to the midheaven angle..

not having a time for someone - especially someone who holds the highest public office in the usa - seems to be a real drag and reflects the lack of support and interest in astrology culturally.. hillary clinton is the first candidate running for president that i can recall, that we don't have a confirmed time for..

maybe the media is making too much hoopla over hillarys health.. the thing that gets me about hillary is her unwillingness to be held accountable for much of anything.. mind you - this seems to be a sterling characteristic of us presidents of late, so maybe i am complaining to much!

Waybread wrote:

Therese, I don't see Robbins' chart posted now, so I can't comment.

Sorry, I've been away all day and am trying to catch up this evening. Since I use the sidereal zodiac, I gave the link to Robbins' tropical chart on AstrodataBank.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Robbins,_John

There is more and more talk lately of serious health problems for Hillary Clinton, but mostly on the Internet rather than in the more public media. For myself, I don't know what to believe, but I know that her coming solar return indicates elevation in status, but also her Mars-Pluto-Saturn conjunction is in a prominent angular position. This is for the PM time of birth, and as we're all saying, our comments would only pertain to a correct chart.

Hillary's Ennead chart (40 day period within the solar return year for the PM birth, which I used to predict her victory), currently is very afflicted with her natal Saturn (with Pluto and Mars) square natal Venus-Mercury (in natal 6th) on the ascendant. This Ennead began on August 5. But she gets a new and very different Ennead tomorrow. Let's see what the news sources will say about her health and campaign.

I really like those blue and white charts Siderum posted! Very easy on the eyes.

Hi Therese

Sent the Website: http://apps.flatangle.com/Charts/
Regards
Mario

Mario, did you have to use an image service such as TinyPic to upload those charts, or is there an easier way to post the flatangle charts on the forum?

Therese

Therese can we leave chats about charts to the pm system please? There is also an existing thread on this topic on the news page. Thanks

Mark

After looking at Chelsea Clinton's chart I am now convinced that the 8.02 am time is near correct.

Thanks James for mentioning Chelsea's chart. It never occurred to me to look at her chart but now that I have, I consider I can see to within a year or two the death of her mother (I feel uncomfortable writing about this though) which then makes the 8.02 am chart correct but I agree the possibility of it being a bit earlier. Note the Mars/Jupiter conjunction conjoining her Mother's MC, Mercury conjoining her Mother's Moon and Venus her Pars Hyleg. Also when Chelsea was born Hillary Clinton's Jupiter made a trine by one degree method to her MC.

Also I cannot dismiss as coincidence the fact that the asc. on Hillary Clinton's nomination acceptance chart was close to her POF as per the 8 02 am chart. Something similar happened with Donald Trump's nomination acceptance chart where the asc. conjoined his Lot of Spirit and the Moon was on his POF.

I am also unhappy about the 2.08 am time if for no other reason that Lord 7 would be Jupiter dignified in Sagittarius. With an unfaithful husband - Really?

We could also mention Janet Reno having Parkinson's disease while Attorney General, candidate John McCain having melanoma, and so on.

The point of the health issue is not its seriousness compared to others. The point is whether or not it is serious enough to either a) keep voters from voting for her who otherwise would, or b) be serious enough to keep her from running. Janet Reno did not run for Attorney General. She was appointed. John McCain lost, whether or not his melanoma had anything to do with it is up for speculation, but since he lost we can't dismiss it. The others mentioned previously hid their conditions to prevent scenario b. Hillary can no longer hide the fact that she is in poor health - only how poor. The Washington Post Yesterday reported that she might skip the debates as she will still be recovering from her "pneumonia." I don't know that the American electorate is willing to vote for someone who might not be able to function or possibly not finish the term regardless of ideology. Therefore even the perception that might be true must be hidden.

What would be do without Uranus? Actually I'm being serious. Certainly unexpected things happened before the late 18th century, so where would we look besides Uranus? What I've seen in numbers too small to be a valid sample is the reversal of the solar return angles during years of upheaval in a person's life. In other words, If we accept for the sake of argument that 8:02 AM is correct, then 22 Scorpio rises and 5 Virgo is on the MC. If, on the solar return in question, either Taurus rises or Pisces is on the MC, that would constitute a reversal. If all four reverse that's a serious year. The closer to the degree, the theory goes, the more significant the year.

Hillary's 2015 Solar Return cast for NYC (assuming she was there and I don't know that for a fact) has 9 Pisces on the MC. She was born on Oct 26,, therefore, if she drops out, her 2016 solar return is not relevant for our purposes unless she does it after her birthday. The Democrats would love that.

Her 2015 Solar Return cast for her birth place does not show any such reversal. It does pick up on the illness theme. Everybody gets sick. The illness business will not show something like: sick enough to force the naive to stop whatever they are doing permanently.

However Uranus might be helpful after all when coupled with the illness business. In the nativity, using Placidus cusps, Taurus is on the 6th cusp. Venus is in detriment in the 12th. Morinus used to love to wax eloquent on the use of the 12th as the house of illness. He can be persuasive on the point. Therefore this could be an indication of serious illness at some time in the life and this in turn usually means before an age where it would be expected. In the Chicago 2015 solar return Saturn occupies the 6th and rules the MC, indicating 6th house issues being brought into the light - unless we think she is going to buy a puppy. Saturn in the nativity is in detriment, in the 10th sign, in partile square to the ASC - the native's body and/or health. Transiting Uranus retrograde, will trine natal Saturn. Trines aren't always good. They are easy.

There's a bunch of other stuff, too, but I'm not going to belabor the point. She's ill. Everybody knows this now. The question is whether or not she will drop out of the race. Despite what are indications of some serious health issues, I haven't been able to find anything that indicates she will.

Hillary's Phaethon is about 29 degrees Pisces, retrograde and close to its station. So it is not affecting her Moon.

Her Moon at 22 degrees Pisces 51 minutes is highly significant as not only has it caught the immediate transit of retrograde Mercury in 22 degrees Virgo 51 minutes, and the mutable signs like Pisces are vulnerable to lung problems as well as Waybread pointing out that Mercury rules the lungs and she was diagnosed with pneumonia......but also Chiron is exactly conjunct her Moon at the moment.

My interpretation of that is that Hillary will win this election, and the pneumonia is just due to the Mercury retrograde, and she will be back on form when Mercury goes direct and hits 22 degrees Virgo 51 minutes in early October.

And as Vicki said, Saturn will be forming an antiscion conjunction with Pluto in early November at the time of the election.

Interesting that her Phaethon, which is natally sesquiquadrate 135 degrees to her Mars Pluto conjunction, has just been transited by Jupiter in 29 degrees Virgo and 1 degree Libra. I interpret that as meaning very strong powers of recuperation at the moment, which will manifest clearly in early October. This Phaethon too was hit by retrograde Mercury in 29 degrees Virgo at the beginning of September, and is likely a contributor to her pneumonia, as Mars in particular is known for indicating infectious diseases, headaches and the like. The retrograde Mercury involvement seems to indicate the temporary nature of this illness, and full recovery when Mercury goes direct at 29 degrees Virgo around 7th October.

I could be wrong, as I am predicating this interpretation on Phaethon, although near its station and very strong, being too far away from her Moon ie more than one or two degrees, so not modifying the quality of the Moon.

From this I think Hillary will recover from her pneumonia by early October when Mercury is direct and opposition her Moon, and win the election in early November. Her Moon is very, very strong and is only temporarily knocked by the Mercury retrograde.

Edit: Donald Trump's Phaethon is 20 degrees Sagittarius, which is conjunct his Moon, so makes his Moon respond in the opposite way to Hillary's even though their Moons are almost square to each other, his Moon being 21 degrees Sagittarius 12 minutes. Also Donald Trump doesn't have the benefit of Hillary's Mars Pluto conjunction square Phaethon which is being activated at the moment. His Mars is 26 degrees Leo 46 minutes, his Mars is rising natally so he is used to winning but this may not be his time. Mars is about winning contests.