Skyscript Astrology Forum

pankajdubey wrote:Would you agree with Charles Carter that at least symbolically- M.C directed to midpoint of two planets is the same as those two planets rapt parallel the M.C ?

How much difference would there be between thereal rapt paralell value or this symbolic rapt parallel.

PD

Midpoints by longitude? no.

A rapt parallel is when two directed planets have the same distance from the meridian, i.e. the same hourly distance, the proportion of semiarcus.

margherita

Gjiada wrote:

pankajdubey wrote:Would you agree with Charles Carter that at least symbolically- M.C directed to midpoint of two planets is the same as those two planets rapt parallel the M.C ?

How much difference would there be between thereal rapt paralell value or this symbolic rapt parallel.

PD

Midpoints by longitude? no.

A rapt parallel is when two directed planets have the same distance from the meridian, i.e. the same hourly distance, the proportion of semiarcus.

margherita

To me these rapt parallels indeed do look like a mundane variant of midpoints. Since Placidus also invented the mundane aspects based upon the semi-arcs, I would suppose that there is some analogy between the rapt parallel and the midpoint of MC (or Ascendant) between two planets measured along the ecliptic. It's just a different reference frame.

Eddy wrote:[To me these rapt parallels indeed do look like a mundane variant of midpoints. Since Placidus also invented the mundane aspects based upon the semi-arcs, I would suppose that there is some analogy between the rapt parallel and the midpoint of MC (or Ascendant) between two planets measured along the ecliptic. It's just a different reference frame.

Well, an aspect in mundo too looks like a mundane variant of a sextile

Anyway I don't believe that mundane aspect are based on semiarc- or maybe we want to say the same with different words.

They are just based on the fact that a house are two hours for Placido, so a mundane sextile will be distant two houses, ie 4 hours and so on.

But if you say that the position of the planet is based on its semiarc, I agree.

margherita

Gjiada wrote:Well, an aspect in mundo too looks like a mundane variant of a sextile

Anyway I don't believe that mundane aspect are based on semiarc- or maybe we want to say the same with different words.

They are just based on the fact that a house are two hours for Placido, so a mundane sextile will be distant two houses, ie 4 hours and so on.

But if you say that the position of the planet is based on its semiarc, I agree.

margherita

Hi Margherita,

I think we probably agree yet use the different words. Example: If Jupiter is on 2/3 of his diurnal arc and Saturn on 1/3 of his diurnal arc then (if I've understood well what Placidus meant) they mutally differ 1/3 and could be expressed as a mundane sextile. 1/3 * whole diurnal arc (which is 1/2 of the whole diurnal+nocturnal).

However this was not the usual method before Placidus, see Martin's book for more info.

They are just based on the fact that a house are two hours for Placido, so a mundane sextile will be distant two houses, ie 4 hours and so on.

I assume that you mean 'seasonal hours'? Otherwise this would be only correct for places at the equator or if the Meridian house system is used. In the given example. Jupiter would be on the cusp of house IX and Saturn on cusp XI. (In this example I ignore latitude for a moment but Placidus took the planets' latitude into account with the mundane aspects.)

It took me a while but whith the Astrodienst chart section I managed to find a time and place for an example. I don't know how to post it but here are the data I used. A high latitude but I don't intend to start a 'polar discussion' here. I just ended up here after some trial and error: Place: Thurso, Scotland 58?35'N 3?32'W; Date: 21 December 2009; Time: 14:13; Sidereal Time: 20:00; House system: Placidus.
0?08'Capricorn is on cusp VIII
0?00'Cancer is on cusp XII
At this latitude the time that 0?Capricorn is above the horizon is almost exactly 6 hours.
In the example 0?Capricorn rose/was in Ascendant/at cusp I at 9:15 was in the MC/cusp X at 12:14. The point set/was at Descendant/at cusp VII at 15:12. So at 14:13 which is at 5/6 of the time that 0?Capricorn is above the horizon was at cusp VIII. Converted to seasonal hours would make this, 6 equinoctial hrs is 12 seasonal hours, 12 6:12 -- 5:10 thus 10 seasonal hours after rising or 4 seasonal hours after passing Meridian.

The time that 0?Aries is above the horizon is 12 hours. It rose at 12:14 and would reach the Meridian at 18:12 and set at 0:11 the next day.

Given that after 2 equinoctial hours 0?Capricorn was at cusp VIII, we have to look where 0?Aries was after 2 equinoctial hours. With 0?Aries seasonal hours equals equinoctial hours. 2/12 is 1/6 of the diurnal arc so we end up at cusp XII.

The mundane distance between cusp VIII and cusp XII is XII-VIII = 4 houses which are converted to 30 'mundane degrees' and therefore 4 * 30 = 120?. Or to speak in seasonal hours and 'times', they are 8 seasonal hours apart or 120? 'times'/'periods'apart. 0?Capricorn and 0?Aries are 90? apart along the ecliptic.

Perhaps it's interesting to note that at 10:14 0?Capricorn and 0?Aries were in mundane sextile. At 12:14 they were in square aspect and two hours later in mundane trine. So they get squeezed and stretched throughout the day, like a harmonica.

I hope we still agree .

I don't know exactly if we mean the same things, but it looks not because your reference to seasonal hours and equator.

I will give my example of mundane aspects.

I don't use formulae like in Kolev- he arranges numbers in another way - to me Kolev makes things more complicated- but result is the same, so I hope I'm right.

Consider as direction in your example chart the direction of the Sun of the mundane aspect to Jupiter. - I'm using data for semiarc and meridian distance which i need to calculate hourly distance and temporal hour from Morinus speculum.

The position of the Sun in respect to the quadrant is given by hourly distance- which is 4.0415, its speed is given by the temporal hour is 7.463

The position of Jupiter, ie the hourly distance is 2.4706

We know that in Placido house system every house is two hours - whatever I'm, in Rome as in London or on the equator.

The trine of Jupiter will be far from Jupiter 4 houses, ie 4*2= 8 hours.

We know that Jupiter is 2.4706 from MC (in the first quadrant), so we should add 8 hours to have its trine, which will be at 8-2.476= 5.524 from MC (in the second quadrant).

Now which is the distance between the Sun and the trine of Jupiter? Obviously 5.524-4.0415=1.4824

The Sun moves to Jupiter trine with its speed which is 7.463 so 1.4824*7.463= 11.064 which is the arc of direction.

I rounded decimals in copying the post, but if you save decimals you will have the result.

This is my best, math is very confusing for me, so i really hope we agree

margherita

I'm not sure if I can see where we differ. By the way the chart I used was only for the positions of 0?Capricorn and 0? Aries. Not the other planets. It could be any other day or year using the same sidereal time. Are you doing primary directions now and referring to the example chart now with your calculations? I didn't mean primary directions but just the mutual distances (of 0?Capricorn and 0? Aries) at several moments of the day.

At the moment I fail to understand the technique you describe and as the library is about to close at six I can't take a closer look. As I don't have use computer programs for primary directions, I only look at the Astrodienst charts from while to while, and hand calculating would be too time consuming for me, I'm afraid I can't repeat your calculations.

But one thing I don't understand is:

We know that in Placido house system every house is two hours - whatever I'm, in Rome as in London or on the equator.

I think that Placidus cusps/houses are related to seasonal hours. Perhaps this is our point of misunderstanding/miscalculation?

Or is it that you refer to the time used for primary directions, 1?Right Ascension = 1year?

Perhaps someone else sees what we differ about?

Eddy wrote: By the way the chart I used was only for the positions of 0?Capricorn and 0? Aries. Not the other planets. It could be any other day or year using the same sidereal time. Are you doing primary directions now and referring to the example chart now with your calculations? I didn't mean primary directions but just the mutual distances (of 0?Capricorn and 0? Aries) at several moments of the day.

At the moment I fail to understand the technique you describe and as the library is about to close at six I can't take a closer look.

I believe you were talking about mundane aspects and I gave an example, that's all.

Maybe you cannot follow because I don't use kolev formulae, he arranges number in another way, but it should be the same I believe.
Anyway myself I can't follow Kolev method, so maybe someone else can put as you are accustomed, I can't, sorry.

margherita

I don't know what method Kolev uses. To use mundane aspects I just look at the proportions of the points/bodies involved in their diurnal/nocturnal arc, and calculate these with a calculator, or in this case with online free chart material. Anyhow, since I usually only use aspects along the ecliptic, I don't make much use of these calculations.

rob wrote:

pankajdubey wrote: ? Does Sepharial help or hinder?
I have ubuntu jaunty as well- but I am new to Linux and Terminally challanged
PD

No, Sepharial doesn't help. In the meantime you can use other programs that calculate Rapt Pars.

Ubuntu Linux:
Open a terminal (Applications Menu/Accessories/Terminal) and type:
sudo apt-get install python-wxgtk2.8
type your password (sudo means: superuser do) and press Enter
Then copy sweastrology.so to the directory where morinus.py is.
By using the Terminal go to the directory where Morinus-source is.
Type:
python ./morinus.py

A few notes:
- as far as I know only a superuser can install packages (a superuser is the administrator on Windows )
- when you start a terminal it puts you into your home directory see the usefull commands below, Enter needs to be pressed after them of course

pwd - print working directory (where you are now)
ls - list
cd - change directory (you can enter a subdirectory with this command)
cd .. - go up one directory, the opposite of cd (cd space and two dots is the exact command)

A Linux user needs to learn the command line it is much more powerful then a graphical user interface.

rob

Many thanks,
climbed the terminal with a crutch.



When I click on Morinus.py it gives me an option to run it in terminal then , I do not have to type any command

PD

pankajdubey wrote: Many thanks,
climbed the terminal with a crutch.

When I click on Morinus.py it gives me an option to run it in terminal then , I do not have to type any command

PD

A few more notes on the terminal:

man ls <Enter>
prints the manual for the "ls" command. Navigation: PgUp/PgDown, arrows.
"q" quits form manual. Of course "man command" prints the manual for every command.

ls -al <Enter>
prints all("a") files with a long("l") format. This also means hidden files (files beginning with ".")

On other Linux distributions like RedHat(Fedora) only the package manager is different:
rpm -i nameofwxpythonpackage.rpm <Enter>
where rpm is redhat-package-manager and "-i" is install (as far as I can remember).

rob

Data Files for the Presidential Database

I have recently added a complete set of horoscopes for American Presidents and First Ladies especially formatted for the Morinus program as a free download. After logging in to the members area (registration is required but is free), go to:

>Free Downloads
>A Rectification Manual: The American Presidency
>Data files for Morinus Users

The data records are included in a zipped file at the bottom of the post. The file is called "USAPres.zip" Click on the file to download.

Datafiles for Janus 4.3, Solar Fire Gold, and Placidus 6.000 formats are also available.