MarkC wrote:On the other hand there is clearly more chemistry between Cameron and Clegg.

Not sure if I can agree on that, in the public face maybe, but they have a Sun/Sun square with 1 deg orb in Synastry, and Clegg's Mars is on Camerons Sun. Unless I have misread what you mean with "chemistry"?

It would really surprice me if they came to a deal, possibly Clegg will allow Cameron to have the first dance but not more, but it also comes down to if his (Clegg) strategy is Long or Short term.

I think he's real and the one of the 3 that really can claim the tag "fairness", and I also think he's looking at the Nations best as first priority but he will never allow the other 2 to use this to their advantage or subdue his amibitions because at the end of the day he is a politician, but there are fair chances he actually is a good one. Only time can tell.

Oh I forgot, if the 05:56 time is correct for Clegg, then of course Camerons Sun as well is right on Clegg's Mc, which would be a clear indication that Cameron can be the "the light" that show the way for Clegg to fullfil his ambitions.

It's tempting to spekulate but at the same time it can also be joyful to just lean back observing how the energies play out and enhance ones understanding as it's not often one get the chanse to see Saturn, Uranius and Neptune on the same dance floor!

Not sure if I can agree on that, in the public face maybe, but they have a Sun/Sun square with 1 deg orb in Synastry, and Clegg's Mars is on Camerons Sun. Unless I have misread what you mean with "chemistry"?

I am not suggesting they will become friends . I just mean that comparatively they seem more at ease together as people. If you watched the leaders debates I think that came over. However, that does not change the fact their political beliefs are fundamentally at odds in a number of ways. Also bear in mind Clegg is from the right of the Liberal Democrat party and the grass roots are more left of centre than he is.

It would really surprice me if they came to a deal, possibly Clegg will allow Cameron to have the first dance but not more, but it also comes down to if his (Clegg) strategy is Long or Short term.

I agree a full blown coalition looks unlikely. Unless, Cameron stuns everyone and offers a referendum on proportional representation. However, that would risk a major backlash in his own party. Still, some limited 'stability pact' may be possible to allow Cameron to form a government. The political process is not operating in isolation since the pressures of the markets have never been more powerful.

I see the full negotiations between the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives begin at 11.00am on Sunday. Nice Moon Jupiter conjunction although it hits that Uranus/Saturn opposition later in the day. Here is the chart:
It will be interesting to track how this political situation develops as Mercury goes stationary at 23:26 on Monday and direct again at 23:26 on Wednesday.

MarkC wrote:

Not sure if I can agree on that, in the public face maybe, but they have a Sun/Sun square with 1 deg orb in Synastry, and Clegg's Mars is on Camerons Sun. Unless I have misread what you mean with "chemistry"?

I am not suggesting they will become friends . I just mean that comparatively they seem more at ease together as people. If you watched the leaders debates I think that came over. However, that does not change the fact their political beliefs are fundamentally at odds in a number of ways. Also bear in mind Clegg is from the right of the Liberal Democrat party and the grass roots are more left of centre than he is.

I only saw the last debate (I am not in the UK) after finding the BBC video stream, but well Cameron is Libra and Clegg has Mars in Libra which of course helps, and they where both fully aware being in front of the camera and people would judge there behaviour. But no matter were they stand politically, when it will come to the test that square is something they cannot run away from and as you say they also need to have their parties with them.

I am not absolutely sure what to think, there are several scenarios. I can see Clegg as PM in a Lib/Lab coalition but the path there is unclear, and so is the time frame. It have to include though that Brown is taken out of the book. A Con/Lib deal would with 99.99% certainty fix that "problem", but it also have to include and be preceded by an electoral reform.

Then another point, people want change it's said, but are they ready for it? I mean real change has to include an electoral reform, but most people (in UK) still maybe just want the same old, flipping and flopping between two sides when they had enough of one. It's obvious that most of the electorat don't realize that the situation wouldn't have been so much different if Con had been at the Wheel stearing in to the resession.

I thought it might be interesting to compare the charts of the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives. As I noted earlier in thread the Conservative party chart is untimed. The Liberal Democrat party chart is timed so I have put that in the inner wheel.
The Conservative party Sun is quite close to the Liberal Democrat ascendant. However, so is the Conservative party Saturn. There is a tight square between the Liberal Democrat Mercury and the Conservative party Sun.

Below I have put the Liberal Democrat party and Labour party party charts in a biwheel. The Labour party chart is untimed. The conjunction between Mercury in both charts is noteable as is the trine from the Labour party Sun and Venus to the Liberal Democrat Moon. Labour Party Uranus conjunct LD Mars and Neptune. Both charts have a Moon in Libra. Labour Party Mars square LD Mars/Neptune. Labour party Moon (untimed) in plactic square to LD Uranus, Saturn , Mars and Neptune.

MarkC wrote:

JoakimS wrote:It would really surprice me if they came to a deal, possibly Clegg will allow Cameron to have the first dance but not more, but it also comes down to if his (Clegg) strategy is Long or Short term.

I agree a full blown coalition looks unlikely. Unless, Cameron stuns everyone and offers a referendum on proportional representation. However, that would risk a major backlash in his own party. Still, some limited 'stability pact' may be possible to allow Cameron to form a government. The political process is not operating in isolation since the pressures of the markets have never been more powerful.

I'm not sure if it have had any impact and if what, but noticed now that the Sun been in inconjunction to Cameron's Sun while in Trine to Clegg's during the after match although have moved out of orb now. Meanwhile, the opposite is true for transiting Venus. Not a very often looked at aspect i know but as Neptune also merges itself into everything from the same angle, it might be more significant than normally. Among other things I see the inconjunction epressing itself in a way that "things that normally shouldn't or wouldn't happen, happens" or "connections that normally doen't exist or is possible" but on the other side I have also often seen it operate in "separations" and it's a bit like it depends on who is holding the knife, the Surgeon or the Butcher, what the result will be.

MarkC wrote: I see the full negotiations between the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives begin at 11.00am on Sunday. Nice Moon Jupiter conjunction although it hits that Uranus/Saturn opposition later in the day.

Maybe too much of it, Moon comes to opposing Saturn at about 19:00 and knock on Uranus about 21:10, a concreate deal built on common sense and understanding, a break though surprisingly announced OR they simply cannot avoid stumble on that ideologic stone and a sudden break up in disapointment?

I sure don't know, but if the talks survive past tomorrow there might be a good chance for result, but the ball can as well bump over to Brown (Pisces) but that may as well be his resignation.

MarkC wrote: It will be interesting to track how this political situation develops as Mercury goes stationary at 23:26 on Monday and direct again at 23:26 on Wednesday.

Well it can mean the "real" talks don't start until Thursday, which I believe basically mean Lib/Con is off the table. Sure the market wouldn't be happy about that but I haven't seen or heard anywhere they are the King maker? It all depends on how it's done, I think all this talk comparing UK with Greece etc. is just so unreal it can be, but the market has its nerves outside of the shirt right now, true.

Worth noticing here as well maybe, Mercury at the moment creates a weak Biquintile to Saturn but it will strengthen in orb once it starts to go direct. I don't have any input now on what that may result in.

MarkC wrote: The Conservative party Sun is quite close to the Liberal Democrat ascendant.

And in LibDem's 12th, I don't think it would be too far off to suspect the they may have a hidden agenda, but they may as well burn their tail on LibDem's Pluto guarding the house.

The risk though is LibDem won't see it. I don't know how it is in this type of charts, but in Natal charts I have observed that planets (aka energies) operation close to the Ascendant but in the 12th often is not seen by the chart owner - even if you show them, like the blind spot of the eye.

All the talk of the personal relationships between the party leaders makes me think its time to compare their charts in a biwheel. You will have noticed by now I am rather fond of them.

Caution: The data for Clegg is conflicting. There are two times of 5.30am
(Liberal Democrat party office) and 5.56 ( quoted by Roy Clegg of the Astrological Association of the UK as a private source.). I prefer the 5.30am time as I distrust anonymous private sources. Plus the 5.30am time put's Clegg's Ascendant close to UK chart (1927) ascendant.

For Cameron 6.00am is often cited but Annabel Heriott got a corrected time of 5.55am from his mother. As a midwife Annabel has speculated the time may be a few minutes earlier than 5.55am as she believes births are often recorded late. This has made one astrologer use a late Virgo rather than Libra rising chart. However, I am sticking with the 5.55am time. Of course Mothers can be wrong! Both charts (especially Clegg's) need to be used with some caution.
Clegg's Sun squares Cameron's and Clegg's Mars is on Cameron's Sun. However, their Moons do trine each other. They have a Jupiter-Jupiter conjunction (only 3 months apart). Clegg's Jupiter is conjunct Cameron's Moon. It would be most interesting if the 5.30am chart for Clegg is right as this brings up other connections between them. For example, Clegg's MC on Cameron's ASC ruler Venus and Clegg's ASC on Cameron's Part of fortune.

Below this is Gordon Brown and Nick Clegg's charts compared. As Gordon Brown's time is established by a birth certificate I have put his chart in the inner wheel.
Clegg's Saturn is in partile conjunction to Brown's Venus. It is also conjunct Brown's Mars. Clegg's Mars is right on Brown's descendant. Clegg's Pluto is on Brown's nodal axis (south node). Clegg's Jupiter is sextile Brown's Saturn while Brown's Jupiter is sextile Clegg's Sun.

Of course Mothers can be wrong!

And you post this the day before Mother's Day in the US. Tsk tsk. You're going to gt your ears boxed.

Tom

Tom wrote:

And you post this the day before Mother's Day in the US. Tsk tsk. You're going to gt your ears boxed.

I guess I am lucky , we celebrate Mother's day here in March.

Mark

Another intresting observation, which I think hasn't been mentioned before, is that Brown has his native Uranus exactly on Ic, same as in the Poll Close chart. And look at that (Brown) Neptune on Cameron's Sun and Clegg's Mars.

Also I certainly don't envy to not have Bronw's 12th house!

Interesting that in a Sunday newspaper interview today Vince Cable the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats has stated that a deal with either the Conservatives or Labour party is still 'a realistic possibility'. Of course this may be just a tactical ploy to exert maximum concessions from the Conservatives.

Meanwhile David Cameron and Nick Clegg had a face to face meeting alone yesterday evening without any advisers present.....

If the Liberal Democrats do want to consider both options they have perhaps made a tactical mistake in not opening parallel negotiations with both parties earlier. The UK media are describing such a political alliance as 'a rainbow coalition'. This is because in terms of seats the Liberal Democrats and Labour party are still a few seats short of an overall majority. This therefore brings in a possible role for other minor parties such as SNP, Plaid Cymri, SDLP, and Green. Actually, the 3 members of the Northern Irish SDLP have always voted with the Labour party and taken its party whip.

The problem is that such a political alliance would take a lot of subtlety and juggling to avoid political instability. Interesting that today Paddy Ashdown a former leader of the Liberal Democrats has stated Gordon Brown is not noted for possessing the personal qualities to allow him to run such a 'collegiate style of government'.

I did come out for a Liberal Democrat-Labour coalition based on my delineation of the Aries Ingress chart. However, the unfolding politics doesn't seem to be going that way. Gordon Brown is beginning to look the political equivalent of dead man walking.....