Martin Gansten wrote:

Konrad wrote:Well thanks, to you and Martin, I can still type with my left hand, it is just slow going. It is not a serious injury anyway. I was expecting something of the sort this year, but not for another couple of weeks. If you look at my chart I have Mars overcoming the Moon, with the aspect repeating in the Revolution of this year and the Moon handing over to Mars' sign in the revolution via profections.

When you say the aspect is repeating in the current revolution, are you using a tropical definition of the year?

Yes, exactly. I forgot to note too that revolution Mars is squaring the bounds of the directed Hyleg and the accident happened as the Moon was transiting them.

Schmidt had something to say about Doriphoria ,casting of rays and spear-bearing and Donningham's translation here:

http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=125

Schmidt it seems, also believes that early Hellenistic was a complete system and hence once lost can not be deciphered from later hellenistic system.He also suggests that the early system could have been better preserved in the Arabic system.

Very interesting.
May be many peculiarities of the fragmented Early hellenistic system are in the Indian Jyotisha system.Lunar constellation based periods may be one of them.

Konrad wrote:

Martin Gansten wrote:When you say the aspect is repeating in the current revolution, are you using a tropical definition of the year?

Yes, exactly. I forgot to note too that revolution Mars is squaring the bounds of the directed Hyleg and the accident happened as the Moon was transiting them.

The last part, at least, is (more or less) zodiac-independent. But I'd be interested to know why you are using tropical revolutions with a sidereal zodiac, which will result in the Sun in the revolution not actually returning to its natal place. For people born with the Sun in the first degree of a sidereal sign (presumably some 3.33% of the population), it will even mean that the Sun in the revolution eventually migrates into the preceding sign. Is this another area where you chose to experiment first and theorize later?

Interestingly, it seems to have been a standard argument of the modern western siderealist school that sidereal/precessed solar returns work better than tropical ones, and in fact there were European astrologers using sidereal measurements for revolutions even during the Renaissance (perhaps relying on Perso-Arabic sources) -- the reverse of what you are doing here. A long time ago, I too did play with the idea that the seasonal year might be more relevant, but my experiments all pointed me in the opposite direction.

pankajdubey wrote:Schmidt had something to say about Doriphoria ,casting of rays and spear-bearing and Donningham's translation here:

http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=125

Thanks for this, Pankaj. Some valuable critique of Denningmann's work here.

Martin Gansten wrote:

Konrad wrote:

Martin Gansten wrote:When you say the aspect is repeating in the current revolution, are you using a tropical definition of the year?

Yes, exactly. I forgot to note too that revolution Mars is squaring the bounds of the directed Hyleg and the accident happened as the Moon was transiting them.

The last part, at least, is (more or less) zodiac-independent. But I'd be interested to know why you are using tropical revolutions with a sidereal zodiac, which will result in the Sun in the revolution not actually returning to its natal place. For people born with the Sun in the first degree of a sidereal sign (presumably some 3.33% of the population), it will even mean that the Sun in the revolution eventually migrates into the preceding sign. Is this another area where you chose to experiment first and theorize later?

Interestingly, it seems to have been a standard argument of the modern western siderealist school that sidereal/precessed solar returns work better than tropical ones, and in fact there were European astrologers using sidereal measurements for revolutions even during the Renaissance (perhaps relying on Perso-Arabic sources) -- the reverse of what you are doing here. A long time ago, I too did play with the idea that the seasonal year might be more relevant, but my experiments all pointed me in the opposite direction.

Well you know I have been on a seemingly endless quest to find a system to split the year up into time-lords with the 7 planets all having a share, and I have found that using the lord of the Tropical revolution ASC as the first lord and then dividing the year up according to the planets in zodiacal order from it in the revolution to be telling in timing events. I follow Valens in assigning the lengths of the periods, and I believe he apportioned days according to the division of each planets' lesser years into the total number of lesser years of all of them. So the Moon gets 70 days as 25/129*365.25=70.78.

Thanks for clarifying. I, too, have spent much time looking for a simple system dividing the year neatly into periods, using both 'western' and Indian methods (there is no lack of them in Tajika sources), and sometimes I've thought I've found it, but it's always ended in disappointment. Transits and continuous profections (annual and, just maybe, monthly), as found in 'Umar and others, seem to me the most useful methods for timing results within a year.

Martin Gansten wrote:

Konrad wrote:

Martin Gansten wrote:When you say the aspect is repeating in the current revolution, are you using a tropical definition of the year?

Yes, exactly. I forgot to note too that revolution Mars is squaring the bounds of the directed Hyleg and the accident happened as the Moon was transiting them.

The last part, at least, is (more or less) zodiac-independent. But I'd be interested to know why you are using tropical revolutions with a sidereal zodiac, which will result in the Sun in the revolution not actually returning to its natal place. For people born with the Sun in the first degree of a sidereal sign (presumably some 3.33% of the population), it will even mean that the Sun in the revolution eventually migrates into the preceding sign. Is this another area where you chose to experiment first and theorize later?

Interestingly, it seems to have been a standard argument of the modern western siderealist school that sidereal/precessed solar returns work better than tropical ones, and in fact there were European astrologers using sidereal measurements for revolutions even during the Renaissance (perhaps relying on Perso-Arabic sources) -- the reverse of what you are doing here. A long time ago, I too did play with the idea that the seasonal year might be more relevant, but my experiments all pointed me in the opposite direction.

I forgot to mention, the reason i mentioned the bounds was that Mercury is currently the bound lord of the directed Hyleg and it is he the Moon is handing over to this year hence the bringing forth of Lunar significations.

Konrad wrote:I forgot to mention, the reason i mentioned the bounds was that Mercury is currently the bound lord of the directed Hyleg and it is he the Moon is handing over to this year hence the bringing forth of Lunar significations.

I'm not sure I follow that. Are you saying that if a significator A comes by profection to a sign ruled by planet B, and planet B is simultaneously the divisor (= directed term ruler) of the hyleg, then the year will be marked by the significations of A? It sounds a bit back-to-front to me, but perhaps I misunderstand.

(I don't know to what extent you care to have your chart details discussed on the forum, so I won't offer any alternative perspective for now.)

Martin Gansten wrote:

Konrad wrote:I forgot to mention, the reason i mentioned the bounds was that Mercury is currently the bound lord of the directed Hyleg and it is he the Moon is handing over to this year hence the bringing forth of Lunar significations.

I'm not sure I follow that. Are you saying that if a significator A comes by profection to a sign ruled by planet B, and planet B is simultaneously the divisor (= directed term ruler) of the hyleg, then the year will be marked by the significations of A? It sounds a bit back-to-front to me, but perhaps I misunderstand.

(I don't know to what extent you care to have your chart details discussed on the forum, so I won't offer any alternative perspective for now.)

Exactly.

Feel free to send your thoughts on to me in private if you want to, I am interested to see what you come up with.

Martin Gansten wrote:

pankajdubey wrote:
Schmidt had something to say about Doriphoria ,casting of rays and spear-bearing and Donningham's translation here:

http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=125

Thanks for this, Pankaj. Some valuable critique of Denningmann's work here.

This is an example of how wonderfully helpful Robert Schmidt's commentary on Hellenistic principles is in Definitions and Foundations.

Konrad, I don't know if you have set up your sidereal revolution to compare with the tropical. I think my brief comments here may not reveal too much of your natal chart, but if so I'll be happy to quickly delete this post.

In your current revolution Mars is just at the natal NG (zenith) point squaring Uranus (30 minute orb) which is in the mansion of Mercury--injuries to the hands and arms. This is a technique straight out out of Krishnamurti which states that when looking for the results of transits, one has to note the vimshottari planet ruling the mansion, its position and/or houses ruled. You will know where your Uranus and Mercury are positioned in your natal chart. House position (angularity, cadency, house symbolism etc.) will describe the location of transit effects.

This placement of revolution Mars will affect Mercurial factors (via Uranus) in other ways during the year as well. All things Mercurial, and perhaps related to Mercury's houses as well, as well as any bodily conjunctions to Mercury. (Krishnamurti precepts)

Western Fagan school sidereal astrologers always place the natal and revolution in a bi-wheel, so it may be difficult to see the interactions of the two charts if one's astrological program doesn't provide bi-wheels.

When you say that your fractured your hand, this would mean bones in your hand, correct? So symbolically we're talking about fractured bones in the fingers or hands?

Martin Gansten wrote:

Interestingly, it seems to have been a standard argument of the modern western siderealist school that sidereal/precessed solar returns work better than tropical ones, and in fact there were European astrologers using sidereal measurements for revolutions even during the Renaissance (perhaps relying on Perso-Arabic sources) -- the reverse of what you are doing here.

Yes, the dramatic planetary pictures in sidereal revolutions are what so excited Cyril Fagan and his co-workers when these charts were discovered. The Fagan school places great emphasis on planets angular in the revolution (and natal planets which fall in revolution angles) as well as aspects to revolution angles.

A number of western tropical astrologers (such as Robert Hand) now remove precession from their revolutions (solar returns) as they see these charts do a better job of highlighting relevant planets for the year. The Moon, of course will be the biggest change between tropical and sidereal revolutions.