Skyscript Astrology Forum

james_m wrote:that is quite amazing petr9! i am going to have to try this astro program... i am stuck in a rut and not as adventurous as i would like to be! this overview on the venus calendar is amazing!

Hello James! Hope you find some time for some adventure again ... and thank you!

Petr,

For the inferiors:
I think your 'Rising Morning' corresponds to the heliacal rising or what the Babylonians would refer to to the first appearance in the eastern sky or the morning first. And the 'Setting Morning' corresponds to last appearance in the eastern sky or morning last.
Similarly 'Rising evening' corresponds to first appearance in the western sky (evening first) and 'Setting evening' is heliacal setting or last appearance in western sky (evening last).

Can you confirm?

If so, it would be great to tabulate similar synodic information for Mercury as well.

For the superiors:
There will be only 'Rising Morning' or heliacal rising (morning first) and 'Setting Evening' or heliacal setting (evening last).

There is one special rising for the superiors - the acronychal rising when the planet is first visible in the eastern sky as the Sun sets. This happens close to the planet's opposition to the sun. Could you add this information for the superiors as well.

Are you using the Swiss Ephemeris APIs to calculate the visibility, elongation and brightness information?

Thanks

Hello satya7

satya7 wrote: Could you help to list similar information for the other inferior planet Mercury; as well as the Superiors - Mars, Saturn, Jupiter?
The tabular data is more important; graphical view is optional.

My goal was to do this calendar especially for Venus; so I can't promise to do it also for other planets. Maybe I will do it also for Mercury in the future.

satya7 wrote: Also could you add visibility information?

I am especially interested in the first and last appearance in the eastern/western sky as the planet moves away or towards it's conjunction with the Sun.
Also the visibility information should adjust based on the location selected; something similar to the visibility table in this link below(see last table in the page)
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/n ... aq/baghdad

For the inferiors:
I think your 'Rising Morning' corresponds to the heliacal rising or what the Babylonians would refer to to the first appearance in the eastern sky or the morning first. And the 'Setting Morning' corresponds to last appearance in the eastern sky or morning last.
Similarly 'Rising evening' corresponds to first appearance in the western sky (evening first) and 'Setting evening' is heliacal setting or last appearance in western sky (evening last).

Can you confirm?

I derived most of data from NASA ephemeris ... but this "visibility information should adjust based on the location selected" and "heliacal rising/setting" is something I'm not very sure about and I don't know the exact calculation and formula ... so I rather used morning/evening set/rise data from static astrodienst ephemeris tables (= it's static data and not adjusted for local horizon)

satya7 wrote: Are you using the Swiss Ephemeris APIs to calculate the visibility, elongation and brightness information?

I would like to use them, it would make lots of things much easier ... but my server hosting doesn't support (blocks) this option

Hi Petr,

Thanks for considering to add Mercury.

Location specific is good to have not a must. The information is valuable as is.

You could consider the superiors later after Mercury.

I am liking your website very much! So many useful tools!

Thanks

Your site Petr is a wonderful resource for astrologers!
I also like the graphics and the serious approach you have to provide tools for all the community.
Very generous from you!

Here is the terminology that corresponds to the rising/setting of the planets or fixed stars.
https://www.astrologysoftware.com/commu ... nical.html

Heliacal rise: first day when the star is seen to rise on the eastern horizon shortly before sunrise
Heliacal setting: last day when the star is seen to set on the western horizon shortly after sunset
Acronical rise: (also called "second" heliacal rise) first day when the star is seen to rise on the eastern horizon shortly after sunset
Acronical setting: last day when we see the star set on the western horizon shortly before sunrise

(Mnemonic: heliacal = with the Sun, acronical = on the side opposite the Sun or on the edge of the night)

Long live your site!
Ouranos

I agree that this looks wonderful and look forward to exploring it when time allows. I also agree with Satya that in an ideal world, having heliacal rising/setting data for all the (visible) planets would be very useful for traditional astrologers.

Just one minor point with regard to Ouranos's post:

Ouranos wrote:Acronical rise: (also called "second" heliacal rise) first day when the star is seen to rise on the eastern horizon shortly after sunset
Acronical setting: last day when we see the star set on the western horizon shortly before sunrise

(Mnemonic: heliacal = with the Sun, acronical = on the side opposite the Sun or on the edge of the night)

The site from which this is taken misspells acronychal, which should be -nych- (from the Greek for 'night', as Ouranos rightly points out).

Thank you Ouranos!

Ouranos wrote: Heliacal rise: first day when the star is seen to rise on the eastern horizon shortly before sunrise
Heliacal setting: last day when the star is seen to set on the western horizon shortly after sunset
Acronical rise: (also called "second" heliacal rise) first day when the star is seen to rise on the eastern horizon shortly after sunset
Acronical setting: last day when we see the star set on the western horizon shortly before sunrise
Ouranos

I had a rough idea about the meaning of these phases, but I have no idea how to calculate them locally (for local horizon)

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For example

- there is the list of all 4 phases (first and last day of visibility)

- and I pick the random Rise Morning (first day when Venus is seen to rise before sunrise)

January 14, 2022 - 3:03 am - in Prague, Czech republic

But Venus is still hidden below the horizon at that moment ... so should I calculate the closest moment, when Venus

- 1) moves to Ascendant?

14 January 2022 - 07:35 am - Prague, CZ
or

- 2) Venus appears on local horizon in Prague? (so Venus Altitude will be exactly 0°?)

14 January 2022 - 06:57 am - Prague, CZ
or

- 3) something else?

Hello Martin,

I increased time range (from previous 1800-2100) to 500BC-2500AD, if anyone would like to do more historical research.

BC dates are using the astronomical date format (minus value of the year).
After clicking on the Chart link - the date will be displayed in all 3 formats there:

25 March -0485 (Astronomical date)
= 25 March 486 BC (Gregorian calendar)
= 30 March 486 BC (Julian calendar)
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2) There is the new filter to search by Venus latitude (less than <0°15'; <0°30'; <1°; <2°; greater than 8°; etc...)

It might be combined with any other filters, for example: Inferior Rx Conjunctions & Latitude less than < 0°15' can show all visible Venus transits over the Sun

Once I finish tweaking of this calendar for Venus ... I will try to do the same for Mercury

But Venus is still hidden below the horizon at that moment ... so should I calculate the closest moment, when Venus
- 1) moves to Ascendant?
- 2) Venus appears on local horizon in Prague? (so Venus Altitude will be exactly 0°?)

Petr,
I am no expert on this subject but here is what I have gathered on the subject over time. The risings and settings are divided into 8 phases (True and Apparent)

Here "Ardua et Astra: On the Calculation of the Dates of the Rising and Setting of Stars' by Matthew Robinson from University College London
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/650145

Page 3
"The ‘true’ risings and settings take place when the star crosses the horizon at the same time as the sun: as the sky is still bright at this time, these phenomena cannot be observed and the dates can only be reached by calculation. The ‘apparent’ risings and settings take place just before sunrise or just after sunset, when the sky is just dark enough for the star to be visible. Since the ‘apparent’ phenomena are the only ones which can actually be seen, it seems clear that they are the phenomena referred to in the majority of literary texts and parapegmata; references to the ‘true’ phenomena, which cannot be seen and whose dates cannot be ascertained without mathematical or mechanical assistance, are obviously of less practical use and tend to be confined to ancient handbooks on astronomy."

True Morning Rising (TMR) (true) cosmical rising
the star crosses the eastern horizon with the sun: for the previous few days it had crossed the eastern horizon after sunrise (and was thus invisible); on the day of the true morning rising, it was below the horizon shortly before sunrise (and thus was invisible), and will remain invisible as it crosses the horizon (as the day has now dawned and the sun’s light obscures that of the star).

Apparent Morning Rising (AMR) heliacal rising ‘first visibility’
the star crosses the eastern horizon shortly before the sun, and is thus briefly visible (for the first time). With every morning that follows, the interval between the star’s rising and sunrise increases: the star is visible earlier, and for longer. This is the first of many visible risings.

True Morning Setting (TMS) (true) cosmical setting
the star crosses the western horizon as the sun crosses the eastern horizon: for the previous few days, the sun had risen before the star had set, and so as day dawned the star could be seen some distance above the western horizon.. On the day of the true morning setting, the star was visible before sunrise, but its setting is obscured by the light of the rising sun.

Apparent Morning Setting (AMS) (visible) cosmical setting
the star crosses the western horizon just before the sunrise, and so can be seen to set (for the first time) in the morning twilight. With every morning that follows, the interval between the star’s setting and the sunrise increases: this is the first of many visible settings.

Apparent Evening Rising (AER) (visible) acronychal rising
The star crosses the eastern horizon just after sunset. On previous days the star had crossed the horizon some time after sunset, and so its rising was easily visible. On subsequent days the interval between sunset and the star’s rising diminishes, and the sky is too bright for the star’s rising to be seen, and by the time the sky is dark the star is already some distance above the eastern horizon. Thus the apparent evening rising is the last visible rising of the star after sunset.

True Evening Rising (TER) (true) acronychal rising
the star crosses the eastern horizon as the sun crosses the western horizon, and is thus is invisible. By the time the sky is dark enough for the star to be seen, it will have already risen and be some distance above the eastern horizon.

Apparent Evening Setting (AES) heliacal setting ‘last visibility’
The star crosses the western horizon shortly after sunset. On previous days the star crosses the western horizon some time after sunset, and so it could be seen for some time in the night sky and it setting was easily visible. This is the last visible setting of the star, as on subsequent days the star will have disappeared under the horizon by the time the sky is dark, and so will be invisible.

True Evening Setting (TES) (true) acronychal setting
The star crosses the western horizon with the sun: by the time the sky is dark enough for stars to be seen, the star is beneath the horizon and so is invisible.
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As for historical background and interpretations
1) Jean Stade on Fixed Stars
https://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com/2 ... xed-stars/
Posted on 16/05/2009 by Margherita Fiorello

2) "The Use of Fixed Stars in Astrology" by Prof. Anthony Writer
Jyotisha Bharati Bharatitya Vidya Bhavan, Mumbai.
https://pdfcoffee.com/the-use-of-fixed- ... -free.html

3) "Star Catalogues and Star Tables in Mediaeval, Oriental and European Astronomy" by Paul Kunitzsch
Institute for Semitic Studies, University of Munich, West Germany
Many links on the Web

4) Excellent article by Christian Konig
https://www.astro.com/astrology/ivccn_a ... 0423_e.htm

He has many posts and videos on the web. What I get from him is the 4 approaches working with Stars or Fixed Stars and the ones he seems to prefer are Method 3 and 4
Method 1: Projection of Stars onto the ecliptic
Method 2: Star Sets by Diana K. Rosenberg
Method 3: Rotated Parans - Bernadette Brady approach
Method 4: A Star directly on the Horizon or Meridian

As for 'true' or 'apparent', which one to choose, I have not delve into the subject enough but Matthew Robinson provides additional information in his paper.

Finally, downloading Free software Planetary, Stellar and Lunar Visibility
https://www.thefreewindows.com/3730/lea ... isibility/
and documentation
https://www.alcyone.de/plsv/documentation/index.html

Hope this is helpful,
Ouranos

Thank you very much for all this info Ouranos!

I downloaded Planetary, Stellar and Lunar Visibility software ... and I'm reading the documentaion ????


I will see, if I will be able to do some similar calculations ????

satya7 wrote:Hi Petr,

Thanks for considering to add Mercury.

Hi satya7,

Mercury just added

https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/mercu ... y-calendar
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Thanks Petr!!

Looks very good!

Could you add the planet station date as well? I think that will be helpful.

Showing the chart as currently is fine, I think. If you are pulling the planet to the horizon or descendant, you need to be consistent.

Also what is 'Ecliptic Intersection'? I am unable to understand it. Is it a visible phenomenon?

When I was learning the heliacal phenomenon, I was playing with Stellarium software, which is quite useful.
https://stellarium.org/

Also useful is the interactive night sky map at timeanddate.com, it shows the planet visibility in the eastern and western sky as we move across time.
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/n ... aq/baghdad

Thanks