So often a chart describes how a person goes about his/her life, vs. their profession or reason for celebrity status. I've looked up charts by profession (dancers, French painters, military generals, boxers, &c) on the Astro-DataBank, and mostly their charts are "all over the map." Statistically, horoscope signatures for given professions or traits are unreliable. It's easy to pick a birth date off an anonymous chart; and then if it's a celebrity, to look them up.

Mystery solved.

Are you saying that astrology is incapable of finding professions or traits?

I am not really a natal chart reader but I agree that charts can be unreliable about predicting certain areas of life. Some charts are more clear than others, not unlike an individual. Some people have clear, one-pointed direction while others are all over the place. Considering careers - how many people do we all know that have had many careers, sometimes in unrelated fields? It would be hard to uncode that information. You might be able to say that they changed careers a lot, but would you be able to say in which fields?

I find horary much more clear but even horary charts asked by certain people are very wishy-washy and difficult to decipher, like a tarot reading that is just not giving you an answer. Such is the nature of divination.

I also agree that Paul is extremely skilled and generous with his time. Not only does he know natal charts and horary, but also tarot and palm reading. I have known him for about a decade and I rarely meet others as skilled and kind as him.

petosiris wrote:

So often a chart describes how a person goes about his/her life, vs. their profession or reason for celebrity status. I've looked up charts by profession (dancers, French painters, military generals, boxers, &c) on the Astro-DataBank, and mostly their charts are "all over the map." Statistically, horoscope signatures for given professions or traits are unreliable. It's easy to pick a birth date off an anonymous chart; and then if it's a celebrity, to look them up.

Mystery solved.

Are you saying that astrology is incapable of finding professions or traits?

If you find an astrological signature that works 100% of the time in a big sample of horoscopes, I salute you.

I don't know how you mean your question, Petosiris. Do you advise people on career choices? Here's my perspective, which may not be what you intended.

I've read a fair number of charts on astrology forums for people requesting career guidance, or counselling on what would be a good fit as a university major. Or sometimes they have a particular career in mind, but wonder if they'd be any good at it.

So sure. We're entirely capable of advising horoscope natives, based on what we discern in the chart, notably in a cookbook kind of way. But how good the astrologer's knowledge is of the range of professions out there and what skills the various professions require, probably varies widely.

There is often a kind of feedback from the chart natives, on the level of, "No, I don't like this," or "Hey, thanks. I'll pursue this option."

Sometimes I've tried to explain to the negative respondents that they misunderstood what a given career entails. No doubt sometimes I've totally misread the chart. Sometimes the positive respondent might be merely being polite. Sometimes we never get a response back on that thread. In any event, we seldom hear back, several years later, on where they're at career wise.

Sometimes people's career search problem is a chronic inability to focus, or a big lack of self-confidence. Sometimes they're substance abusers.

I could go on in this fashion..... so I dunno, Petosiris. How do you fare in astrological career advising?

. In any event, we seldom hear back, several years later, on where they're at career wise.

This is a problem in general of users on this site but more so of those who are new to the forum and use it as a free divination source for themselves. Deb would often comment on how she didn't like that being done, although she did still help people sometimes also. Some people approach the forum just to get their fortune read, basically, so one would expect they are probably not going to reply back later and may forget what you said entirely, or that they even had a reading at all. It is hard to say no to people who are asking questions but they really should seek a professional astrologer and we probably should not be answering them anyway? I know I am guilty of doing that, especially in the horary forum, and should try to restrain myself more.

I miss Deb's presence in the forums.

thanks everyone who was motivated to respond here...

michael - i like that picture you have shared, lol!

rudd - thanks for commenting and sharing your insights.. i think we all benefit from everyone's contribution here at skyscript, regardless of what the info is focused on.

astrojin - great to see you! i sure wish you would post more often as i always benefit from your commentary.. your post here is no different.. you hit the nail on the head... we need to examine the theories in order to be better at astrology.. your post really summarizes the importance of it all.. i agree about the considerations before judgment on natal chart reading as well. great post astrojin... i wish you would post more often and hope all is well with you.. i think of our visit to the wonderful country you live in often..

waybread - thanks for your comments.. of course people can cheat on mystery charts.. that goes without saying.. the only ones who would bother to do that really don't deserve a special mention! i am thinking of the other 90% of everyone, which hopefully includes most everyone at skyscript here..

paul - based on waybread and tanits comments, i think you have to do these mystery charts every once and a while anyways!

tanit - thanks for your comments on the thread..

Are you saying that astrology is incapable of finding professions or traits?

I think I'd say that. First off this isn't the topic, but I'll gamble and answer the question. If I'm told it's off topic, I'll delete it or whomsoever can delete it, just let me know - no hard feelings.

The astrology chart should be able to tell us the type of profession a person is suited for in a more or less general way, but whether or not that person will end up in the profession best suited for them is another matter entirely. Other circumstances may prevent it. For example, a person perfectly happy studying for "chart-verified" career in the academe, then for any of a variety of reasons, e.g. illness resulting in a lack of money for school, and our native ends up selling insurance for a few years, then managing a loan office etc
Necessity will usually trump potential.

And the above assumes a chart can be sufficiently specific to point the native in the right direction. OK this I might agree with, but I think that takes a high level of skill given the information a chart gives. Lilly looked at Mercury, Venus, and Mars to determine career. Whichever one was strongest was the most suitable route for the native. Mercury was intellectual pursuits; Mars as physical labor or soldiering; Venus was the arts. Lilly's society was a lot less complex than contemporary first world countries, so while this might be useful, it isn't the end.

I think looking at the tenth is a near waste of time, but that's another topic and I'm already off with this one.

There are chart signatures that allegedly show suitability for astrology. In fact there are several. The chances are if you become dismayed if your chart doesn't have one, there is probably something you do have that would satisfy some author somewhere. I'm about three years retired and I tell people I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. There is some truth in that. I cannot imagine anyone could look at my chart and pick out what I did for most of my working life except maybe, and it's a big maybe, in the most general terms.

And then there is level. Is there a significant chart signature that says architect, but not one for home builder, or carpenter, or electrician?

Career counseling is tricky business in the best of circumstances. Our astrological ancestors may have been able to dope out which of the royal children would ascend to the throne, after all it was highly likely that at least one of them would. That's not the same as looking at a chart with little background information and successfully picking out an appropriate career.

Years ago, when we first dabbled in mystery charts, Deb told me a story. She said her teacher, Olivia Barclay, gave her several charts and asked, "which one is the plumber?" There wasn't a whole lot of success with that one. That was the reason I didn't ask for identification or even career, when I posted mystery charts, but traits or events in the life. When I included the outer planets in the amount of cheating was pretty significant.

Some people did well and got the general idea; a few were really good and these were the ones that I didn't think the astrologer cheated.

I'll close with an example Noel Tyl used to give his students. He gushed over a particular chart. He knew the identity, they didn't. He went on and on about the virtue of the native and showed it in the chart. He announced this chart could easily belong to a Roman Catholic Pope, and made a good case for it. Then, he revealed the native: Famous American gangster Charles "Lucky" Luciano. It ain't as easy as we think it ought to be.

tom,

thanks for your post... the topic of whether one can find profession in the chart is a good one.. i go on lillys basic premise - looking at mercury, venus and mars and trying to figure out which planet of the 3 is most prominent... the way i understand it is the moon applying to one over another is one indication... i was using this in the previous mystery chart where moon applies to venus... it didn't work! but, mercury was very strong by planetary phase and ruler of the ascendant, so perhaps in spite of the moon/venus square on the angles, it turned out mercury was the indicator for this persons profession... - but your post illustrates the difficulty in ascertaining all this.. thanks for your post..