Skyscript Astrology Forum

Taking the SR of a specific year and advancing it 40 days later like a SR Diurnal, would we come close to the position of the Ennead ASC and planets for that period?
Or is totally farfetched?
I find Solar Fire 9 a monster truck to move (Great software for generating reports that no other software can do) and trying to see if there would be an easier way to find the Enneads with Planetdance.

Thank you,
Ouranos

Ouranos, isn't there an easy way in Solar Fire to calculate a simple 9th harmonic chart from the natal chart? Sorry to hear that SF 9 is a monster truck. Version 5 is still a very fast nice little sports car. Of course it will only run on XP. I don't think it will even run on Windows 7.

No you can't get a 9th harmonic chart by advancing a chart by 40 days. The chart has to be the exact deg/min/second calculated from the natal Sun.

Ennead = 9th harmonic chart calculated from the deg/min/second of birth Sun.

thanks therese,

there is not much info to be had.... i know we looked into this before and i was able to generate the enead charts... essentially i am going to try it again here now - get the return chart and generate the harmonics off of them.. let me try now... i am also using solar fire 9 and was able to do this in the previous conversation we had on this...

these are for trumps return.. this is the way you get these.. you start with trumps solar return for 2020... you then go to the returns option and pick the advanced return setting option.. in this option you choose the 9th harmonic option.. you set the point from the specific degree and minutes of the sun position - which is the same in both the natal and solar return chart...

this 9th harmonic chart is for the present time...



there are a number of ways to overlap the charts... natal to solar return... natal to present ennead, solar return to present ennead, and the reverse of all of them too....

here is jan 3 2021 ennead on the inside and trumps natal on the outside..



the most obvious connection is the place of the midheaven in the ennead chart back to trumps natal uranus-node connection..

do you know if donald bradley recommended any particular biwheel set ups?? thanks..

My last post was cut off yesterday when I was typing as suddenly there was a 403 error code (access to server denied), and there was no link to Skyscript. I thought maybe it would help to list the Solar Fire 5 steps for the 9th harmonic chart. The newer versions of Solar Fire might even have the choice of the ascendant of the return chart on the outer wheel.

Here's how the 9th harmonic chart is done in Version 5:

Highlight name of person on calculated chart list.
Choose return or ingress chart from the menu.
Set the date you want.
Check Current and Natal
Click on Advanced and Ingress
Then click on Options; new page comes up
Make sure that SUN is highhanded in left column
Type 9 in Harmonic Box

In the third column there are choices: current/nearest/next return
And how many returns?
Then click OK.

Then you can see the chart alone or choose to make it part of a bi-wheel or tri-wheel.

P.S. James, I just saw your message that was posted after I typed this, but couldn't post it. So I'll reply in another post.

Thank you, James. Are you able to place the ennead (or solar return) ascendant and degrees in the outer wheel? If not, I imagine such a choice can be made using the chart design feature. This is how that choice was made by Matthew Quellas in Solar Fire 5. Here is what Trump's ennead chart looks like for the present period. Note that the mean node gives a partile conjunction to the MC and natal Uranus. This is easier to see if the ennead planets and ascendant are in the outer wheel.

I planned to discuss this chart in light of what the San Francisco Chronicle called the 'Insurrection,' on January 6, but ran out of time. Transiting Rahu is the key to the entire chart, and the key as to whether Trump would remain as president. Hope to discuss this chart today, and why I didn't quite know what to make of this ennead chart prior to the election. (Cusp lines are the centers of houses, so house numbering is incorrect.)

James wrote:

Do you know if donald bradley recommended any particular biwheel set ups?? thanks..

I suspect it would be like the bi-wheel Matthew Quellas designed for return charts which is the type of bi-wheel I use with the natal chart placed inside the ennead or solar return chart. Matthew was a devoted follower of the Fagan/Bradley sidereal school. Also if you have a copy of Jim Eshleman's Interpreting Solar Returns (1979), check his chart illustrations. The hand drawn charts have the natal chart inside and the return ascendant and planets in the outer wheel.

It's interesting to compare your chart of the single ennead to the bi-wheel and how important it is to have the natal chart pictured with the transiting return chart. It's visually more accurate to have the natal chart actually inside the return chart itself.

Thank you both Therese and James!
I got it now in SF with the Advanced options.
Also checked Precession correction. OK?
Question:
You have the Natal, the SR and the Enneads
With the Table of Lord and Sub Lord, which ones become preponderant?
Angular planets, Natal L1, SR L1, the progressed ASC or MC Lords, Nakshatra Lord?
What would you focus on in terms of priority?
Sorry if I have too many questions for you but when I get passionate about something, I want to go at the core of it.

Cheers!
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote:

Also checked Precession correction. OK?

Only if you're calculating charts in the tropical zodiac.

Question:
You have the Natal, the SR and the Enneads
With the Table of Lord and Sub Lord, which ones become preponderant?
Angular planets, Natal L1, SR L1, the progressed ASC or MC Lords, Nakshatra Lord?
What would you focus on in terms of priority?[

It would be helpful if you would post the chart you are asking about. It's difficult to answer general questions.

Sorry if I have too many questions for you but when I get passionate about something, I want to go at the core of it.

I don't mind questions as long as I can understand what is being asked! I've been meaning to analyze President Trump's current ennead. That might help with your questions. I hope I'll finish that post tomorrow. I'll go through the process step-by-step. I illustrate principles best by example.

thanks therese

the biwheel chart you have posted Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:09 pm is the same as mine at Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm with the exception of the angles of the outer instead of the inner chart are used as the basis... thus the inner chart in your example has the angles shown as points... in my chart the reverse happens... i am not sure this matters much and yes, there may be a way to change that in solar fire 9, but it looks like it was default position in solar fire 5, as opposed to my chart which is default for solar fire 9...

i agree with you that it is easier to have the natal chart on the inside.. however in looking at solar return charts i have found it useful to look at it both ways...

thanks ouranos... as therese notes - precession is only when you are using tropical charts! i can't answer your other questions... cheers both - james

James wrote:

The biwheel chart you have posted Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:09 pm is the same as mine at Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm with the exception of the angles of the outer instead of the inner chart are used as the basis... thus the inner chart in your example has the angles shown as points... in my chart the reverse happens... i am not sure this matters much

Yes, the charts are the same. However, it matters a great deal if angles and cusps in the return chart are important. These are more easily seen if the return chart planets are seen as transits placed around the natal chart. The key chart is the solar return, not the natal chart. But both chart forms show the relationship of natal to solar return planets.

and yes, there may be a way to change that in solar fire 9, but it looks like it was default position in solar fire 5, as opposed to my chart which is default for solar fire 9...

The Solar Fire 5 default was the same as your posted chart. The chart I use was especially designed by Matthew Quellas for sidereal astrologers. This is the form that astrologers of the Fagan school use for return charts. Maybe the logic of this form would be more clearly seen if quadrant house cusps were used.

I'm sorry. I keep meeting time delays for posts I said I'd write.

hi therese,

thanks for your additional comments... so basically you are saying the solar return chart is more important then the natal chart for the year in question... do i have that correct?? the fact is the angles in the solar return chart are important, but they can be seen on either biwheel spread...

in fact, i would be curious for you to articulate the order of importance for all of it if you feel so inclined!!

to add to this discussion, the topic which have come up in the traditional astro literature of the importance of the profection lord and where it is placed is mirrored in dr. charaks work on solar returns where he puts great importance on the location of the muntha - profection lord - in the solar return chart... now, this is missing in all of our charts!! and of course the indian astrologers do different ascendants for these points too.. so the number of ways to look at the chart or charts is fairly complicated as there are a number of charts and ascendants one can look at, depending on what one wants to put in focus...

with this in mind i have been giving more thought to transits to the solar return chart as opposed to the once every 40 day transit chart - enneads... with this in mind, below is a chart for trumps 2020 return - krisnamurthi ayanamsa... the profection lord not on the chart is at 6 libra 57 - off trumps natal ascendant at 6 leo 57.. this puts the muntha in the 4th house of the solar return chart which has cancer rising using whole sign houses.. the basic theory is a 4th house placement for the muntha is not that favourable...



regarding this chart, the sun is transiting the 6th house - considered unfavourable.. the developing mars - saturn square are directly aspecting the muntha position or profection lord for the year via opposition and square - and both acknowledged parashara aspects here - mars to the 7th and saturn to the 10th house... the solar return 4/11 house ruler venus is conjunct the south node of the solar return chart and both are in the 6th house of the chart...the fact the yogakaraka mars is located in the 8th house of the solar return can't be considered favourable.. this same 8th house mars aspects the solar return and natal sun - ruler of the 2nd of the solar return chart...

well, the reason i was looking into this has to do with some stuff that came up in my life the past few weeks with sun transiting the 8th house of my solar return chart for this past year... i find the idea of using transit data to the solar return chart really interesting, although i haven't done it enough to know just how relevant it is... however if the enneads are going to be relevant - it is based off the same principle, but much more easy to examine as you don't have to generate 9th harmonic charts off the solar return chart!

anyway - please do give a list of what you think is the top priority when looking at the solar return chart to the natal chart.. i am curious how you or bradley prioritized this... and feel free to offer your comments on the idea of installing the profection lord or muntha into the solar return chart... in the example i have given here with trumps solar return muntha - saturn is making a 10th house square to it.. the moon is in it's 6th house and the sun is in its 8th house - all negative if we use the muntha as the starting point or ascendant to the data in the solar return chart.. cheers james

President Trump’s Inaugural Period Ennead

President Trumps current ennead which covers the inaugural period occurs on January 3, 2021 at 11:07:49 PM at his birth place of Jamaica, New York.



Right away we see that this is a very significant period of time for Trump since transiting (mean) Rahu is in the MC degree which is also the degree of natal Uranus. There are two other cuspal positions: Neptune on cusp 7 and Fortuna on cusp 5. When I first saw this chart, I was sure it was a chart that indicated Trump would remain as president. But using KP, I began to have questions. Rahu is no doubt the major transit for this period of 40 days. According to KP, Rahu manifests in three ways:

(1) Rahu’s sign lord, in this chart Venus is lord of Taurus. Venus is in the obscure ennead 4th house and has just passed natal Ketu and the Moon. At 17 minutes into Sagittarius, it’s the very beginning of a cycle, a planet in infancy.

(2) KP positions: Rahu’s mansion and sub placements are keys to the chart. Rahu is transiting a mansion (star) of Mars, the same mansion as natal Uranus. Where is Mars? In the radix Mars is powerful, conjunct Trump’s ascendant. But in the ennead using equal houses (cusps as centers of 30 degree houses), Mars is in the 8th house while radix ascendant and Mars are in the 12th, a position with no power. However the sub of Rahu is Rahu itself which takes us back to the 10th house and the potent conjunction of Rahu/MC/natal Uranus. I admit that this configuration had me puzzled until the events of January 6 of this year.

(3) The third way Rahu is said to manifest is via its actual house position, which is the ennead public 10th house.

In Trump’s natal chart Uranus-Rahu-Sun are in the 11th house using the Indian equal house system (cusps as centers of houses). Because the natal 11th house has come to the 10th ennead angle, this house is going to be very important for this 40 day period. Earlier historical meanings of the 11th house empathized patronage, alliance, truth, people you trust, and keeping promises. In the 10th ennead house, these areas of Trump’s life become public.

I believe we have seen the full manifestation of Rahu’s transit on natal Uranus in the events of January 6 when a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capital building and made their way into the senate and house chambers as well as official offices. Unprecedented scenes of mayhem occurred in the hopes of halting the congressional voting aimed at certifying Biden’s victory. It's interesting that these pro-Trump supporters honestly believed they were acting for the principle of Truth, in support of the person they believed to be the rightful winner of the election.

Police response and other law enforcement was extremely slow. A friend told me that he saw a social media video where a police officer actually opened the barricade so Trump supporters could go through to the Capital building. Was Trump in on this carefully orchestrated event? Most likely, I believe he was. Apparently Trump was watching the event unfold on TV but did nothing to call in the National Guard. And finally he had to be coaxed to make a video telling his supporters that they were very ‘special’ but asking them to ‘go home.’

I think it’s quite possible that this unprecedented ‘insurrection’ was a Little boy’s tantrum at losing the presidency. If he cannot continue as president, the next best thing was to leave with an unforgettable dramatic show of support from his followers, his ‘special’ people who knew that he was the winner of the election. After all, for weeks Trump had told his followers that he won the election and endlessly tweeted “Stop the Steal.???

The invasion of the Capital is a mark in American history that can’t be forgotten: The infamous day of 6 January 2021 will go down in history, linked to Donald J. Trump forever. Infamous fame is better than no fame, perhaps. So this potent conjunction at the ennead MC/10th cusp represents an extreme public show of support for Trump as the relevant planets are in the natal 11th house.

As this 40 day ennead continues through the inauguaral period, we can expect continued public, even dramaic support for Trump, but if it’s the 11th natal house that is highlighted rather than the 10th (whole sign houses) Trump won’t continue at the highest level of government as president.

I offer this entire dramatic 11th house episode as evidence for the Indian equal house system rather than whole sign houses. Should Donald Trump continue as president on January 20, then we know that this Rahu transit of Uranus in Trump’s radix whole sign 10th house represents the overthrow of the Democratic government of America. (Or another extreme example, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are no longer alive.)

(To be continued, also inaugural enneads of Biden and Harris)