Skyscript Astrology Forum

Therese,
Zet Astrology software I have used, Geo version.

http://zaytsev.com/introduction.html

I use a software for Screen Capture : Snagit

https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html

Therese Hamilton wrote:This is how I see my astrological work exactly!! All I can say is that as the years have gone by, every year seems to add more questions about what we don't know and cannot verify.

Then what is astrology?

Astrology is a very complicated and exact science, that we cannot imagine, encompassing all areas of life, human and mundane events, all conditions we know and don't know. The planets and planetary pictures too many meanings, therefore when an astrologer's prediction turns out to be true, mine included, is just a coincidence.

Therese wrote:
In my experience solar return house lords don’t apply except perhaps for the ascendant lord. We stay with natal house rulers. If solar return house lords are used, the results are conflicts that cannot be solved. Astrologers who routinely use solar return charts don't consider return SR house lords to apply.

Linchi replied:
I read again and again, when an astrologer wants to claim something, then start with "In my experience".

My questions : Which experiences ?
And when did you have this experience? 10 years ago or 20 years ago?
could it be that you didn't notice some important aspects?
(...)
Can you give at least one example so that we can check and understand?

For research I first study the work of others and test their techniques. If I find a technique effective for prediction, I stay with it. Otherwise I will try new directions. For solar returns my work is based on the discoveries of the early Fagan school siderealists who placed emphasis on planets on chart angles (and I add close aspects to chart angles) and natal chart house lords in return charts. Also it is simple logic that for clear delineation, there cannot be two sets of rulers for each house, natal and solar.

Very close conjunctions/aspects of solar to radix planets are important anywhere in the solar chart.

One topic on which there seems to be universal agreement is child birth and children which come under the 5th astrological house. KP and the Khullar system place the second child in the 7th house. I don’t know if this second child concept is used in western astrology, but it is certainly accurate for my own children.

For Meghan below I am posting two enneads, one each for the birth of her two children. The ennead has exactly the same calculation basis of the natal Sun as in solar returns, but the time period is limited to 40 days. The ennead is Donald Bradley’s discovery near the end of his life. I have tested the ennead in hundreds of return charts. In Meghan’s chart I compare the relevant natal and solar (ennead) house lords. At present I’m limiting relevant aspects to four degrees.

Megan’s ennead for Archie’s birth 6 May 2019



According to KP, the relevant houses for childbirth are the 5th with support from the 2nd (increase in family) and 11th. Mars is Meghan’s radix 5th house lord, the Sun rules the 2nd and Venus is 11th lord. We find all these natal rulers in prominent positions in the ennead chart:

Radix Mars, 5th house lord is at the nadir, and also ennead Mars is in the degree of radix Fortuna in the Sun’s star (radix 2nd house lord).

Transiting Sun, radix 2nd house lord, is on the ennead ascendant and radix Sun is on the 5th house cusp (4 degree orb) Ennead Mars (radix 5th lord) is in the Sun’s star.

Radix Venus, 11th house lord is in the ascendant degree, trine radix Mars at the nadir. (This aspect is apparently more important than Venus in the 12th.)

In addition radix Jupiter, the indicator of children, is angular on the 7th ennead cusp. Transiting Rahu on the radix ascendant is in the star of Jupiter, sub of Venus.

Testing ennead house lords:
Ennead 5th lord is the Moon in the 12th house of loss.
Ennead 2nd lord is Mars, not near a cusp or aspecting an angle.
Ennead 11th lord is Saturn conjunct Ketu and Pluto.

Megan’s ennead for Lillilbet’s birth 4 June 2021



There are four radix house lords in Megan’s radix that apply to a second child’s birth:
Mars, 5th lord
Saturn, 7th lord (second child)
Sun, 2nd lord
Venus, 11th lord

From this ennead we see that the 7th lord is as important as the 5th lord for a second child’s birth. 7th radix lord Saturn in its own domicile is at the nadir, the same position as Archie’s 5th lord in his ennead birth chart. In Lillibet’s ennead transiting Mars has come to the partile conjunction with 5th lord radix Mars (5 minute orb).

Radix 11th lord Venus is part of the stellium of planets (Sun-Venus-Moon) in ennead 7th house. It’s interesting that this is a female child and Rahu, Venus and the Moon are transiting in the Moon’s star in Taurus. Moon and Venus trine radix Venus/Moon/Jupiter.

As in Archie’s birth, 2nd radix lord Sun is on an ennead angle (10th). Ennead Sun is also transiting its own star.

Testing ennead house lords:
Ennead 5th lord Saturn is on the nadir, but 12th from 5th which is supposed to negate the 5th.

Ennead 2nd and 7th lord is Mars which is on a cusp (9th). However transiting Ketu in ennead 2nd would not point to a child.

Ennead 11th lord is the Sun, too far away from cusp 7 to count as a conjunction.

In summary my research over many years has supported the traditional importance of the ascendant degree around the chart in solar/ennead charts. It is this ascendant degree that distinguishes a chart from others that occur on the same day. I do not see any support for the lords of solar houses. According to the Fagan sidereal school, the doctrine of the importance of angles is supported in charts I have tested as well as very close conjunctions/aspects of solar to radix planets. Solar planets always act ON natal planets and activate them, not the reverse.

(My Raman/Velow houses extend 15 degrees on either side of equal cusps from the ascendant.)

Therese Hamilton wrote:For research I first study the work of others and test their techniques.

But you haven't tested my system and techniques yet.

If I find a technique effective for prediction, I stay with it. Otherwise I will try new directions. For solar returns my work is based on the discoveries of the early Fagan school siderealists who placed emphasis on planets on chart angles (and I add close aspects to chart angles) and natal chart house lords in return charts.

What if there are no planets at the horoscope angles? Does it then mean that this year (for solar, for example) is not so important?

Second question here is, what are the AC and MC ? What significance do they have for the horoscope owners? What do AC, MC, Sun and Moon represent ? What horoscope factor represents the person himself not the body ? Are the Sun,Moon and rulers of AC,DC,MC,IC not important ? I am interested in the question why only the horoscope angles are so important. That is why I would like to know what they are.

At present I’m limiting relevant aspects to four degrees.

Why ? Why not 3° ? or 5° ? What would happen if you took 5° ? Or I ask like this : If discrepancy was 4°20' or 4°50', would you have taken only 4°20' and not 4°50' ? Or would you not have taken both because they are greater than 4°. What is the logic behind taking 4° ?

Testing ennead house lords:
Ennead 5th lord is the Moon in the 12th house of loss.
Ennead 2nd lord is Mars, not near a cusp or aspecting an angle.
Ennead 11th lord is Saturn conjunct Ketu and Pluto.

It is about the rulers of Solar hauses, whether they can be used or not. I did not write that the rulers of Ennead Charts should be used.

In your earlier post you wrote :

In my experience solar return house lords don’t apply except perhaps for the ascendant lord. We stay with natal house rulers. If solar return house lords are used, the results are conflicts that cannot be solved. Astrologers who routinely use solar return charts don't consider return SR house lords to apply. The solar return is basically only a transit chart over the natal chart, so natal planets don't aspect solar planets. Transiting solar planets aspect natal planets.

Meghan’s Solar for Archie’s birth 6 May 2019 :


Meghan's 11th solar house lord Jupiter (20°15' Libra ) aspect natal AC lord Moon (21°3' Aries) and natal 2nd house lord Sun (18°29'). If one were to use house aspect, which I do, Jupiter still aspects Mars in solar (natal 7.House) and Mercury ( 5th solar house lord).



Meghan’s Solar for Lillilbet’s birth 4 June 2021

Meghan's 7th solar house (2nd child) lord Jupiter (25°42' Sagittarius ) aspects solar mars (5th natal house and 11th solar house lord) (25°40' Pisces) and solar AC (26°35' Gemini).

Solar Mars has aspect to natal AC and a sextile to solar Moon (AC lord and 2nd solar house lord).

Solar Moon has trine to solar Venus (5th house solar lord and 11th natal house lord).

Therese wrote:
For research I first study the work of others and test their techniques.

Linchi replied:
But you haven't tested my system and techniques yet.

No, I only discovered your system in my elder years after I had decided to focus on the zodiac itself. I still hold out hope that tiny areas of the zodiac/ecliptic have specific meanings as is traditional in India: 3, 6 or 12 astrological minutes have distinct meanings which (theoretically) is how astrologers can give information about a person's life. (Assuming that astrologer has siddhi powers.)

Therese wrote:
If I find a technique effective for prediction, I stay with it. Otherwise I will try new directions. For solar returns my work is based on the discoveries of the early Fagan school siderealists who placed emphasis on planets on chart angles (and I add close aspects to chart angles) and natal chart house lords in return charts.

Linchi replied:
What if there are no planets at the horoscope angles? Does it then mean that this year (for solar, for example) is not so important?

Don't all of us have past years that have faded from memory because nothing of note happened in those years? But I think it would be highly unusual not to have one or two planets on angles/cusps or aspecting natal planets.

Second question here is, what are the AC and MC ? What significance do they have for the horoscope owners? What do AC, MC, Sun and Moon represent ? What horoscope factor represents the person himself not the body ? Are the Sun,Moon and rulers of AC,DC,MC,IC not important ? I am interested in the question why only the horoscope angles are so important. That is why I would like to know what they are.

The ascendant is the key to the 12 houses. I'm not sure about the MC/IC axis, but they seem to be reception points for aspects. I think if we want to take a psychological approach to planets and houses we might have to use Placidus houses.

Therese wrote:
At present I’m limiting relevant aspects to four degrees.

Linchi replied:
Why ? Why not 3° ? or 5° ? What would happen if you took 5° ? Or I ask like this : If discrepancy was 4°20' or 4°50', would you have taken only 4°20' and not 4°50' ? Or would you not have taken both because they are greater than 4°. What is the logic behind taking 4° ?

From working with many charts, this is my (perhaps temporary) most accurate and workable orb for enneads. I would use wider orbs for solar returns.

Therese wrote:

Testing ennead house lords:
Ennead 5th lord is the Moon in the 12th house of loss.
Ennead 2nd lord is Mars, not near a cusp or aspecting an angle.
Ennead 11th lord is Saturn conjunct Ketu and Pluto.

Linchi replied:
It is about the rulers of Solar hauses, whether they can be used or not. I did not write that the rulers of Ennead Charts should be used.

Solar returns and enneads use exactly the same principle of calculation. But orbs can be kept smaller in enneads as the time period is only 40 days.

Meghan’s Solar for Archie’s birth 6 May 2019 :

This would be Megnan's 2018 solar return, but you seem to have a different chart? My software gives an ascendant of 24 Sco 13.

Meghan’s Solar for Lillilbet’s birth 4 June 2021

I will save responses to comments on solar charts for another post. I chose enneads for my examples because we know that the birth of a child in a 40 day period would be the most significant event. I don't know what other events would have occurred in a chart that covers an entire year.

Therese Hamilton wrote:No, I only discovered your system in my elder years after I had decided to focus on the zodiac itself.

This is what western astrologers did until the beginning of the 20th century (until Alfred Witte).
But this does not help astrology if we want astrology to develop further. If we only look at the Zodiac, we will never be able to prove or disprove what the earlier astrologers claimed, nor will we be able to extract much important information from the horoscope.

I still hold out hope that tiny areas of the zodiac/ecliptic have specific meanings as is traditional in India: 3, 6 or 12 astrological minutes have distinct meanings which (theoretically) is how astrologers can give information about a person's life. (Assuming that astrologer has siddhi powers.)

3, 6 or 12 astrological minutes are approximate values.

The exact values are :

2'38" Harmonic-8192
5'16" Harmonic-4096
10'32" Harmonic-2048

I have never used the houses with harmonics until now. Now let's see how this looks.

Meghan's Solar for Archie's birth 6 May 2019 :

Solar (harmonic 4096 - 5'16")

I take the aspects as "=".

solar MA = solar JU = solar VE = solar ME = solar MO = natal ME

solar Mars (29°4' Libra) : solar 11th house ruler and natal 5th house (harmonic 1-scorpio ) ruler.
solar Jupiter (27°13' Libra) : solar 7th house ruler and karaka for children
solar Venus (25°23' Gemini) : natal 11th house ruler
solar Mercury (25°33' Virgo) : solar AC ruler
solar Moon (28°2' Scorpio) : natal AC ruler
natal Mercury (27°41' Libra) : solar AC ruler

Mars-Jupiter Conjuction is Guru Mangal Yoga and and are they in the 5th house of the solar.

This would be Megnan's 2018 solar return, but you seem to have a different chart? My software gives an ascendant of 24 Sco 13.

It is solar 2018, valid until 4 August 2019. My software gives me 8°41' taurus AC.

I give another example and compare 6' (Harmonic 3600) with 5'16" (Harmonic 4096)

Meghan's marriage 19 May 2018 at 12:39 PM in Windsor Castle

Solar Return (Harmonic 4096- 5'16")

solar JU : 0°59' Taurus (solar DC ruler ) aspected :

a) natal DC lord (Harmonic 1) Saturn (29°58' Gemini)
b) natal Sun (1°14' Virgo) (harmonic 4096)
c) solar saturn ( 27°35' Leo) (Harmonic 4096)

solar VE : 1°21' Sagittarius (solar 2nd house ruler) aspected :

a) natal sun (1°14' Virgo) (harmonic 4096)
b) solar saturn ( 27°35' Leo) (harmonic 4096)

solar Mercury, solar AC lord is in the sign Capricorn ( natal 7th house)





Solar Return (Harmonic 3600- 6')

solar MA : 15°55' Sagittarius (solar DC ruler ) aspected :

natal 3rd house ruler Jupiter (15°27' Sagittarius) (Harmonic 3600)

solar VE : 22°45' Gemini (solar AC ruler) aspected :

natal Saturn (21°25' Libra) (harmonic 3600)

Linchi wrote:

Therese wrote:
This would be Meghan's 2018 solar return, but you seem to have a different chart? My software gives an ascendant of 24 Sco 13.

Linchi replied:
It is solar 2018, valid until 4 August 2019. My software gives me 8°41' taurus AC.

You don't give your solar calculation information, but checking again for Meghan's 2018 solar return, I still get a 24 Sco 13 ascendant: 4 August 2018, 4:16:08 PDT, Canoga Park, CA. What time of day do you have for this 2018 solar return?

Therese Hamilton wrote:You don't give your solar calculation information, but checking again for Meghan's 2018 solar return, I still get a 24 Sco 13 ascendant: 4 August 2018, 4:16:08 PDT, Canoga Park, CA. What time of day do you have for this 2018 solar return?

Therese, I have entered the event location London.
Solar : 5 August 2018 00:15:59 BST London England

Your calculation for Canoga Park, CA. is correct.

Linchi wrote:

Therese, I have entered the event location London.
Solar : 5 August 2018 00:15:59 BST London England

Your calculation for Canoga Park, CA. is correct.

So now we have the additional complication of birth place vs. residence returns!!

Therese wrote:
I still hold out hope that tiny areas of the zodiac/ecliptic have specific meanings as is traditional in India: 3, 6 or 12 astrological minutes have distinct meanings which (theoretically) is how astrologers can give information about a person's life. (Assuming that astrologer has siddhi powers.)

Linchi replied:
3, 6 or 12 astrological minutes are approximate values.

The exact values are :

2'38" Harmonic-8192
5'16" Harmonic-4096
10'32" Harmonic-2048

We actually have three possible ways of dividing the ecliptic into small areas:

(1) Division by astrological minutes down to three minutes according to Indian nadi tradition. This depends on a base of twelve 30 degree, 60 minute 60 second signs. This division is ayanamsa dependent.

(2) Division via Vimshottari dasa based on the years assigned to each planet as per K. S. Krishanmurti and S.P. Khullar. This is highly dependent on a correct ayanamsa.

(3) Harmonics of the ecliptic first pioneered by John Addey, who of course used the spring equinox as his initial calculation point. Thus we have moving harmonics across time. Only sidereal harmonics would be fixed on the ecliptic against the sky.

Linchi, what is your initial point for calculating your harmonics??

Therese Hamilton wrote:Linchi, what is your initial point for calculating your harmonics??

I divide 360° circle into two until it is not divisible. But no one has yet asked why I divide it into two. It is the most important question to understand and comprehend my system.
I didn't divide into two because they used to get to harmonics 16 and I keep continuing. It is not that simple. You can't divide the circle by any number on a whim. Some people do that and divide the circle by all possible numbers. It is nonsense.

The most important and least important events only occur or ends when the time of the event is exactly harmonic with the starting time. This was my observation and calculations between 2006-7 and 2015. Anyone who knows harmonics numbers check it to see if it is correct. There is no need for horoscope calculations to check year harmonics and day harmonics.

The events take place or end:

a) either harmonic years 2.80; 5.60; 11.25; 17; 22.30; 39.50; 42.50; 45;...years
b) or harmonic days (the numbers are as above)
c) or harmonicsminutes (the numbers are as above)

The harmonic numbers can be added to each other to get a harmonic number again.

I give a recent example: Colin Powel was born April 5, 1937 and died October 18, 2021. It makes a total of 84.5 years. If you add 45 and 39.5 together you get exactly 84.5 years. It has nothing to do with any planetary cycle (Uranus). It only has to do with power of two harmonics.

These harmonic numbers can only be reached by dividing the circle by two.

Number 2.80 is harmonic 128
Number 5.60 is harmonic 64
Number 11.25 is harmonic 32
Number 22.30 is harmonic 16 and so on.