Skyscript Astrology Forum

[ Determination of the Predominator of a chart:
The predominator of a chart is the luminary of time (sun by day or moon by night) provided it is not cadent.

If in a day chart the sun is cadent, we take then moon as predominator.
If in a night chart the moon is cadent, we take the sun as predominator.
If both luminaries are cadent, the ascendant becomes the predominator.

Some astrologers also said that if the domicile ruler of the ascendant is also cadent, then we should use the Lot of Fortune.

[The cadent luminary can still be predominator if it is in his/her own house of Joy i.e. sun in 9th or moon in 3rd. Sun in 9th is in his own house of Joy and also in his own sun-god house. Moon in 3rd is in her own house of Joy and also in her own moon-goddess house.]

I read this. My Sun is in 9th house own house of Sun Joy. So I'm sorry, I don't see how can my Sun is not a candidate.
That Sun of mine should be the Predominator. NOT the EMPTY Ascendant, where the Moon is in 12th house of bad karma.

My Sun STILL in 9th house in Sidereal or Tropical.

eta: the reason why I don't use sidereal is because I don't resonate with the sidereal moon.
I intellectualize my emotions, I write and talk out my emotions. This is just like my tropical Gemini Moon. It the Gemini rule by Mercury filter that my emotions has to go through, I think through my emotions. I have 1000 thoughts going on at once. I'm crazily can multitask. All these are Gemini Moon (tropical). For sure I am NOT Taurus Moon (sidereal).
I mean see how much I write? This is No Taurus Moon (sidereal). It 100% Gemini Moon (tropical).

Can anyone help me find the Predominator in my chart?

I read this. How accurate is this? [The cadent luminary can still be predominator if it is in his/her own house of Joy i.e. sun in 9th or moon in 3rd. Sun in 9th is in his own house of Joy and also in his own sun-god house. Moon in 3rd is in her own house of Joy and also in her own moon-goddess house.]

That Sun of mine should be the Predominator candidate. NOT the EMPTY Ascendant, where the Moon is in 12th cadant house and house of bad spirit too.
Yes the Planetdance software as my Asc as the predominator, BUT I want to challenge this. How can my Sun in 9th is not a candidate? That Moon is in 12th house of Self-undoing and bad spirit.

Is there another software to calculate the predominator? (beside Planetdance)?
eta: btw, I just tried AstroFox 0.8. And AstroFox said my predominator is the Sun. But Planetdance said it the Asc. So what it is?

eta: This is my Tropical 7 planets Traditional chart.

fromChina wrote:I mean see how much I write? This is No Taurus Moon (sidereal). It 100% Gemini Moon (tropical).

Or perhaps a sidereal Gemini ascendant? Just saying...

Hi fromChina

Valens Bk3.1 says if both the lights are in the 9th, use the Ascendant as the predominator, if both are in the 12th, use the MC; the bound ruler of the predominator becomes the ruler of the nativity.

Your chart has the Sun in the 9th and the Moon in 12th so we have a choice, Asc or MC? It turns out both the Asc and MC are in Venus' bounds.

Venus is in the 8th, in aversion to the Asc;however, Venus is sextile to the MC and in partile (exact) square to Mars, ruler of the MC, an argument for the MC as the predominator and Venus as the kurios.

She is also the exaltation ruler of the sect light (Sun) and the 1st triplicity ruler of the Sun. These connections make her a dominate planet in your chart. Mars is still in play being so closely connected to Venus and as he is also the 2nd triplcity ruler of the Sun. The two are further linked by "neighbouring" (both being in Jupiter's terms), which ties them even more closely together in "enmity" (square) if Schmidt is right (Definitions and Foundations p.189). The texts make a point of saying malefics in domicile are not always harmful, particularly here where Mars is in and also rules two good places (5th and 10th). Mars battles but in the 5th he could well be battling for good things.

Hope I have not muddied the waters more here; finding the predominator and kurios is not always straight-forward.

Thank you so so much for your help though Sir or Mrs janegca,

I mean Venus is in Mars bound though. And both by sign and by house, Mars has the upper hand. Mars is in domicile sign, and Mars in 5th so counted the house where Venus in 8th is, that is 10th place count isn't it?

And my MC is in Aries (which rule by Mars).

Mars has an upper hand than Venus though. Due to domicile at home sign, and by house too. And that Venus is in Mars bound, so don't that Venus has to operate under Mars bound?

I don't see Venus is stronger than Mars. Mars is in a Trine house below the horizon. Venus is in an above the horizon Idle 8th house, where planets in Idle house I read that they don't seem to work.

Good point Janegca!
How much does Kurios plays out as 'captain of the ship'? It is one element among many others.
If we read a chart like a cookbook with just the ingredients, the question remains 'How do I assemble them all to make a cake.'
True to this chart the partile square Mars/Venus is a strong testimony of likes/dislikes in one's life.
Venus in the 8th Oriental to the Sun sextile MC is a strong indicator of a career choice and the square to Mars in Scorpio suggests 'love at first sight', a profession that clings to you, something that allows you to spill your passion.
It could be something related to practical arts such as pottery, weaving, embroidery and the partile square to Mars (sesqui-quadrate MC suggest something with metals or ancient civilizations ornaments - Mars in Scorpio). Or in the finance (8th House), joint ventures or money related relationships. Ptolemy in Book IV,4 says "But if Venus and Mars together dominate action, they produce dyers, perfumers, workers in tin, lead, gold, and silver, farmers, dancers inarmour, druggists, physicians who employ drugs in their treatments."

I do have a question. My life is so painful though, I don't know if it that Venus in 8th caused trouble (which I doubt since Venus she not know to be malefic, and in 8th means it an Idle house, the planet in it not work).

So that leave Saturn in 5th (whom I'm a daychart) so Saturn must be hostile being in a Mars sign and in a Mars house under the horizon.

Mars whom in 5th too, he for sure is the Out of Sect greatest malefic here, but Mars should be bubbling with energy has he in his own domicile sign and in his own house below the horizon.

Venus rule my 4th, and in my 8th. Venus also rule by 11th but in my 8th.
Saturn rule my 7th and 8th, and in my 5th.

I have alot of deaths in my immediate blood family.

My older sibling died. Venus rule 11th but in 8th?

My father (whom is the most important person in my life, he my Sun in 9th shine on me), he passed away due to end stage illness. I watch him die slowly each day and there nothing I can do for him due to it the end stage of his illness. Venus rule 4th but in 8th?

My own child, my son also died. Saturn rule 8th but in 5th? I don't know why Saturn grant me a child AFTER my Saturn return, but then take my child from me, it because it Saturn Retrograde so he takes things back?

Tbh I don't know why I'm still living, it because of my spouse. That Jupiter even though it in it fall in 7th house of mine, somehow work, we went through alot and despise all the losses, my spouse still by my side.

I don't know what causes all these deaths in my life, I think it Saturn, but Saturn should be my benefic though.
Could be Mars due to Mars the greatest malefic. But he in his own sign and in his own house below the horizon, he should calm down his Out of Sect hostile.

Well, this chart of mine does give me headache.

If Aries MC is the predominator, then Mars is the oikodespotes then (because Mars is the ruler of my MC, and Mars is at home in his domicile sign). And Venus is the kurios.

And here is the result from Planetdance, the software has Mars as my Kurios (maybe because of my Aries MC in 10th?).
https://i.postimg.cc/D0GDgvSX/result.jpg

I see alot of charts where their MC line in 9th house, or even 11th house. I heard MC IC is a very sensitive point calculated based on your birthtime and birth place, so No, not everyone going to have MC in Aries or MC right in 10th.

It would actually make more sense if Mars is the oikodespotes though, because in the 38 years living of my life, I feel that Mars the most in my chart, and my personality is exactly like Mars too.

Hi fromChina

"I mean Venus is in Mars bound though."

Yes, you're right, sorry about that, misread my dignities table. And very sorry to hear of all the family deaths, especially that of your son. Venus as the 1st triplcity in the 8th would emphasize death during the first half of your life.

"my personality is exactly like Mars too"

The kurios doesn't necessarily describe you, it describes your journey; Demetra George says it is "the guide of the soul" and "shows the manner or course of life" (Ancient Astrology Vol. II, p1088) sadly, in your life it has meant you have had to deal with the deaths of those close to you.

Mars most likely is describing your personality by his aspect to the 1st place and by ruling your activities (10th).

"I don't know why Saturn grant me a child AFTER my Saturn return, but then take my child from me, it because it Saturn Retrograde so he takes things back?"

That could well be, Zoller and Schmidt both (if I'm remembering correctly) say a retrograde malefic can take back what is granted; Venus would want children, Saturn as her ruler, in the 5th could grant that but then, being retro, take what was granted away.

"I don't see Venus is stronger than Mars. Mars is in a Trine house below the horizon. Venus is in an above the horizon Idle 8th house, where planets in Idle house I read that they don't seem to work."

Planets in the 8th don't work in the sense that they don't work to bring good things into the life. Venus in the 8th square Mars and Saturn is acting, but as an "accidental malefic". Aquarius and Scorpio are antiscia which means that the square is more than effective, as is an exact square. What has happened here is that Venus' foundational strength is not as strong as Mars because she is peregrine and he is in domicile but her accidental strength from (a) being the 1st triplicity lord (which Dorotheus says makes a planet "dominant"), and (b) ruling an angle (4th) and succedent (11th) place, and being in a succedent place (8th).

Planets in "bad" places (2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 12th) still operate, just not necessarily to bring good things into the life.

"I don't know what causes all these deaths in my life, I think it Saturn"

I'm not sure what draws events into our lives. I think the planets describe the events rather than act to cause them; that the chart is a map of the journey we take and that, if we learn to read it, we may be better able to handle whatever we encounter; although I'm not always sure forewarned is forearmed, as sometimes gleaning knowledge of what's to come can be almost as painful as the experience itself.

May god stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you walk.

janegca wrote: Venus is in the 8th, in aversion to the Asc;however, Venus is sextile to the MC and in partile (exact) square to Mars, ruler of the MC, an argument for the MC as the predominator and Venus as the kurios.

Planets in the 8th don't work in the sense that they don't work to bring good things into the life. Venus in the 8th square Mars and Saturn is acting, but as an "accidental malefic". Aquarius and Scorpio are antiscia which means that the square is more than effective, as is an exact square. What has happened here is that Venus' foundational strength is not as strong as Mars because she is peregrine and he is in domicile but her accidental strength from (a) being the 1st triplicity lord.

Thank you Mrs. janegca for your replies and explain it to me, I only been study astrology for few months so I'm still new to this. However astrology help me alot in see why I am who I am, my personality, etc...

Can you explain to me how is my Aquarius Venus (which the sign Aquarius is detriment in Sun), but she is the 1st triplicity? I'm a daychart though, and isn't Venus a night planet?

It actually make alot of sense if Venus is my kurios, as she rule my 4th but in my 8th which caused alot of deaths of my blood immediate family.

Is the argument for my MC (rule my Mars) as my predominator still valid now that my Venus is in Mars bound? That would make Mars as my oikodespotes (as he rule my MC and in his domicle sign), then Venus is my kurios.

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Oddly all my life I feel my Mars, not Venus. My personality sure is nothing like Venus.

I'm domineering, extreme, intense, very stubborn and unyielding. I'm strong headed, rigid, obstinate, tenacious. And obsess.
I'm fixed, like extremely fixed. I'm extremely black and white in my view of everything in life, zero grey in between. In my dictionary the word gray don't exist.

I think exclusively in black and white, period. I swing one single sidde to the extreme, all or nothing, do or die, make it or break it. Rather I have 100% of something or I rather have 0%, I don't want substitute. The word substitute don't exist in my dictionary neither.

I don't have a problem with confrontation. I confront all the times. I confronted with despair, grief, losses.
I always know want I want and go straight after it, regardless of how much hardship ahead, I'm just very determine in get what I want. Obsess and possessive too.

I don't know but that Scorpio Mars in 5th is like that Marslikes the extremes, and it likes face life and death to just feel good. That Scorpio Saturn in 5th too also added on to my stubbornness. Scorpio Pluto also in 5th (if you use modern 10 planets).

I mean this don't sound Venus isn't it? It Mars.

I just can't seem to get out of my 5th house Scorpio immersion. Which is embarrassing because I am Pisces Sun! and Mercury (Aquarius Sun if under Sidereal). Why is my personality is so FIXED like that Scorpio Mars though. It insane, even I'm scare of myself of how extreme I am.
Aquarius Venus is a fixed sign too, so that added to my stubborn I'm sure.

And I can't seem to let go, it been many years and I still have my father ashes and my child ashes in my home. As long as I'm still alive, their ashes will be with me. I would have go with them, but I think of my spouse and that is why I'm still living.

I don't even know were my Asc go, I guess the ruler of my Asc is the moon and the moon is in 12th of self-undoing (basically that moon undoing my ascendant), so out there Scorpio Mars and Saturn take over that role. I need that Cancer Asc help, but I feel that it behind the scene, and Scorpio Mars take over?

I'm not an easy person to live with, I'm fortunate to have a spouse who loves me for who I am. I guess that falling Capricorn Jupiter in 7th work, that Jupiter is rule by Saturn too. So I hope Saturn one day won't take my spouse back.

This is my chart with 10 planets. It a pretty bad chart tbh, all the planets are at odd with each others, and alot of stress in the chart.
With 10 planets, that Mars still the strongest in my chart.
Sun (self) Trine Mars, Mercury (mind) Trine Mars.
Sun (self) Trine Saturn, Mercury (mind) Trine Saturn.
That probably explain why my personality is like Mars and Saturn.

From China wrote:

I mean see how much I write: This is [NOT] a Taurus Moon (sidereal). It is 100 % Gemini Moon (tropical).

Martin Gansten wrote:

Or perhaps a sidereal Gemini Ascendant? Just saying...

Actually writing and speaking a great deal would suggest Mercury (speech and communication) receiving the trine aspect of Mars (activity).

What Martin meant to point out as a sidereal Gemini ascendant is that Mercury then becomes your ascendant lord. Mercury is located in the 9th house with the Sun. This is a very different life emphasis then the tropical ascendant lord Moon located in the 12th house. Life fortunes would be significantly different with Mercury as ascendant lord.

Most probably I annoy some forum members by posting sidereal notes on what in the past was a wholly tropical part of the forum. I continue to post here because the dangerous misconception persists that sidereal signs are simply duplicates of their tropical counterparts; that is, tropical Gemini = sidereal Gemini.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Vedic/Jyotish astrologers today continue to perpetuate this myth, now unfortunately recorded in a number of modern books which students study to learn what they believe to be India's ancient astrology. This situation suggests the complete lack of logical thinking among astrologers in general. There are not two separate zodiac tracks running along the ecliptic. If a certain degree of the zodiac (ecliptic) is, for example, colored blue, whatever that degree stands and expresses will be exactly the same no matter what name is given to that degree.

This zodiac truth was very clearly and succinctly stated by Rupert Gleadow way back in 1968 in his book Your Character in the Zodiac:

People fail to realize that sidereal Cancer cannot possibly have the same character as the old tropical Cancer. For a person’s character is not going to change just because he is classified under a different sign. And the fact is that tropical Leo and sidereal Cancer are two different ways of referring to the same part of the sky, so obviously the character of the people born under that piece of sky must be the same, whether we label them Leo or Cancer.

1968: Rupert Gleadow, Your Character in the Zodiac, Funk & Wagnalls, p.30.

From China, see how much better your sidereal chart is:

Moon is exalted in Taurus. (Sidereal Taurus is a communication sign, a sign of Virgo's triplicity, Mercury's domicile and exaltation.)
Jupiter is in its own domicile in Sagittarius. (Sid Sag is like trop Capricorn.)
Saturn is exalted in Libra. (Sid Libra is like trop Scorpio.)
Mercury is in Aquarius, no longer in its fall in Pisces. (Mercury is a domicile lord of the Gemini-Libra-Aquarius triplicity.)
You said your age is 38, so Mars continues strong in its own domicile, Scorpio. (Lahiri or Kirshnamurti ayanamsa)

So, can you write a few notes about life events up to the present? Does your life reflect planets in good or bad signs?