Therese Hamilton wrote: AJ wrote:
At some point it gets all scattered and what was once a standard system becomes fragmented.. i am thinking of indian astrology, but western astrology is much the same.. there are these many different schools of astrological thought.. one is ultimately left to their own devices wandering in the dark or becoming the light... probably it is a case of both..

Therese Hamilton wrote:The problem of mixing systems is much more serious when we’re talking about western tropical and India’s sidereal system. Today’s western Jyotish astrologers are inventing attributes for sidereal signs (often largely copied from the tropical) which are patently incorrect and misleading. This will result in an incorrect understanding of the energies of signs and how signs operate. In turn this affects every consultation session with clients, not to mention the influence on students who happen to use western Jyotish books for study.

Hi Therese: The quote above attributed to me was actually James. As always thanks for your insightful comments.

Hey All: This thread has run off the cliff from the original topic. I also think each of us is describing different parts of the elephant if you catch my meaning. Not that any of the comments aren't relevant in there own context, they just belong in the philosophy/science forum section under a more focused topic.

Be Well.

thanks therese and aj

i concur with aj and think the conversation is better had on the philosophy forum.... as to charak - i believe different..

http://drkscharak.com/#section-about

i can't imagine it being fun, fun fun for macron at this moment in time.....

it seems there is a problem in france, or maybe more then a few problems and they don't appear to be going away any time soon.. but i am thinking of macron at the moment, so i revisited his chart...

pluto transit on his ascendant seems fitting.. it is about 12 minutes past the conjunction to his ascendant right now.. t mars has just moved into ( sidereal ) leo which is the 8th whole sign house to his cap rising birth chart. as it happens he has saturn in leo at 7 leo exactly, so unless mars goes retro - this will tighten up in the next week..

sun/mercury transit are moving towards the pluto/rahu conjunction in his chart by square...

here is the solar return for 2022 which is in effect at present..



its not the prettiest set up with the mars-moon opposition along the midheaven axis and neptune sitting close to the descendant adding to the deflated vibe he is undoubtedly subject to at present.. but i am told there is a yoga in macrons chart involving the mars and moon.. i still can't see how it offsets this set up in the 2022 solar return where the 2 planets are in unfavourable signs in opposition and along the midheaven axis..

you'd think the sun-jupiter square with jupiter not that far off the descendant, would help some here, but maybe not..

here is the biwheel where you can also see the close proximity of pluto to macrons ascendant degree..



now, here is a chart for macrons 2nd term as president of france..



it doesn't look all that problematic... i keep on thinking he is going to step down, but as stefan noted up above - this is his last kick at the can here, so maybe he will figure out some good leadership skills to quell the unrest...

maybe i need to be looking at the charts for france here to understand this better... it seems france has been mired in protests and conflicts for quite some time of late - the past 5 or so years.. maybe that is what i need to be looking at...

yes, i am travelling in france at the moment and following the crazy ideas of macron with regard to sending french troops to ukraine, even though we are told incessantly that nato is not at war with russia..

i still can see the transit of pluto to his ascendant here, but even more closely, the t pluto 150 both his 8th house saturn and 6th house jupiter exact, making a finger of god with the transiting pluto.. at the same time jupiter continues to get close to an exact conjunction with his 7th house ruler (sidereal zodiac) moon / cancer. that is nice he is suggesting the baguette battlalion take a trip to odessa, but apparently the polls in france show 68% are not in favour of this.. meanwhile a well known french historian, emmanuel todd has a book on the top selling list of books which is supposedly adding to the local angst regarding the direction of things here more generally, although my french isn’t good enough to get a close read of it all.. meanwhile le pen continues to improve in the polling numbers.. i am not sure when the next election in france is.. beautiful country and the people are very pleasant and accomodating.. the food is also very nice!

apparently the next presidential election in france is aprill 11th, 2027…. macron is not allowed to run in this either..

additional comments here from later in the day..

the transit of jupiter to the 7th house ruler moon, also means t jupiter is opposite uranus here.. the unusual aspect of macrons relationship is the age difference between them of approx 25 years…. i was thinking of how saturn in the 7th or 8th might point to a marriage to an older person, but doing the math i see he met his future wife at age 15 when he was a student in her class.. again, the idea of saturn representing teachers comes to play in my mind.. but if you do 1 degree per year ~ a type of solar arc direction, one would get sa ascendant. at about 21 cap, which exactly squares onto that moon / uranus opp in macrons chart which connects to his 7th house ruler…. astrologically his marraige to brigette makes sense if you factor these considerations in..

james_m wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:28 pm the unusual aspect of macrons relationship is the age difference between them of approx 25 years…. i was thinking of how saturn in the 7th or 8th might point to a marriage to an older person, but doing the math i see he met his future wife at age 15 when he was a student in her class.. again, the idea of saturn representing teachers comes to play in my mind.. but if you do 1 degree per year ~ a type of solar arc direction, one would get sa ascendant. at about 21 cap, which exactly squares onto that moon / uranus opp in macrons chart which connects to his 7th house ruler…. astrologically his marraige to brigette makes sense if you factor these considerations in..

hey James: It's good to hear you are enjoying France.

Saturn in the 7th or 8th house, suggesting a marriage to an older person, is a traditional astrological interpretation. However, Macron's case presents an interesting deviation from this pattern. As you pointed out, his meeting with Brigitte at the age of 15, while he was her student, underscores the complexity of their relationship dynamics, underscored by the exact Moon opposition to Uranus. This puts an unusual spin on the conventional understanding of Saturn's role in indicating partnerships with authority figures or older individuals with the Mo-Ur dynamic involved.
Another link is that Saturn rules the 2nd one of the houses of marriage in Indian astrology and is the D9 ascendant lord.

But the age difference between Macron and Brigitte, approximately 25 years, adds another layer to the astrological analysis.

I get it that Saturn in these houses and/or closely configured with the significators of marriage can delay or indicate an older spouse, but what really, astrologically speaking, accounts for the extreme disparity between their ages?

If I were reading this chart off the cuff without knowing the extreme age gap between them, I would delineate him marrying an older partner a bit beyond the average age people get married. In fact, he was married at age 29. which is young for men in France, where the average married age is 39.2 years old. So we have to look deeper. *

I think a lot of this ties in with fallen Mars in the 7th house. Mars is strongly tied to the Moon being its dispositer and in a t-square with the Moon-Uranus dumping out on Mars in the 7th house of relationships. The aberrant NN (Ketu) is also very closely afflicting Mars from the 3H. You could delineate this in a few ways, but suffice to say it's deeply emotional, tense, and physical at the same time.

I just noticed that Venus in the navamsa is aspected by the D9 ascendant lord Saturn; another indicator of an older spouse. D9 Saturn is associated with the NN in navamsa too, which would magnify the results of Saturn in this chart.

The Shastras are really dark about fallen Mars in the 7th, but IME, the ruler of the 4th in the 7th, is pretty good, but there is no getting around that with Mars in the 7th is Kuja dosha, or Mars affliction that brings disturbance to domestic life. Maybe Brigette has Kuja dosha too, and that will help along with exchanging signs, but with the fallen state of Mars in Macron's horoscope, it is a difficult marriage with sudden ups and downs, and Brigette always has the upper hand; always.

I know very little about Macron's bio beyond the ADB page. Perhaps James or someone else could fill in more details about their relationship?

If I had time I would look at Brigette's chart. Perhaps in a few days.

Be well, all, and safe travels James.

*ON Statista statista.com

Macron's second term officially started on May the 14th 2022, only two days before a lunar Eclipse on May 16th 2022. This Eclipse Marks his second term as the President of France. As one can see in the attached chart for this Lunar Eclipse cast for Paris France (sorry it is not the sidereal chart ), The Sun-Moon opposition is exactly on the Ac/Dsc axis, with Sun (President) right on fixed star Algol (head of the Medusa - president about to 'lose his head' over something?). Saturn is tightly square this eclipse axis while Pluto Rx. is conjunct the Mc (as well as Macron's ascendant). This Eclipse took place only 4 degrees away from Macron's natal Mc.
At the moment, solar Arc Rahu is right on Macron's Mc, while his solar Arc Mars/Uranus midpoint is exactly on the world axis.
Take a look at the coming solar ingress chart for the Spring equinox, for Paris. Note Uranus conjunct the IC.

Don't the 2nd term eclipse chart and the coming Solar ingress chart look problematic enough?

thank you both aj and aquastellea!

i can’t properly respond to both of you as i am unable to take a look at D9 charts, or chart comparisons with the eclipse to macrons chart and etc.. well, that is a bit of a copout, isn’t it? lol. i don’t want to offer the excuse i am on holidays and my usual lazy self, but that too could suffice!

i do continue to ruminate over the importance of D9 ~ navamsa) or eclipse charts and i am really quite torn on there use.. with regard to the D9 charts, i lack experience.. with regard to the eclipse charts, i continue to see how they can be both a positive and a negative, depending on numerous factors.. i have been kind of weaned off of ingress charts partly due my increasing use of sidereal and also because although you can put it to the capital of a country, it is much the same in many of the surrounding countries, in europe more generally…. i thought i gave them a good try 5 -10 years ago with very little to show for them..

with regard algol, i have had many more years to consider this and all i can come up with is that there is a cycle within a cycle with regard to algol.. and i am not convinced of its frightful connotations..but i don’t want to deny the use and relevance of fixed stars, as they do form one of the backbones of early astrology and must have merit in some way..


that is interesting about the average age of a male marrying in france of 39.2 years! perhaps people are living together in common law much more here? or? learning more about a different culture is fun..it seems the french like to put cheese on everything.. a cheesy guy like me even notices it! they have so many different kins of cheese, it’s amazing.. yesterday i saw a stand of cheeses, with only one that was orange in colour.. it happened to be an aged gouda, which is a cheese from holland.. apparently they can keep gouda for 10 years anyway and it gets sharper and stronger in taste as it ages.. the bit we had was 3 years old and really delicious!

James,

To spice up your trip in Paris, if you have a chance to visit Quai St-Michel, an area in Paris with a high concentration of esoteric bookshops. The most famous one being the home of Les Editions Traditionnelles at 11 Quai St-Michel.
And La Librairie du Bonheur, an Anglo-French bookshop at 8 Bréa St.
Here is a list
https://www.pariszigzag.fr/tops/boutique-esoterique

Very close you have a jazz club 'Caveau de la Huchette' 5 de la Huchette St. with standards of the 50's

Best to you,
Ouranos

thanks ouranos! we have intentionally avoided paris as it is overwrought with tourists! do you have any recommendations for bayonne and area? we are headed there tomorrow.. thanks for thinking of us!

Don't know much about Esoteric bookstores but they seem to be located in this area below.
Bayonne has a reputation for chocolate and its famous local liqueur Izarra, a mixture of armagnac and flowers of the pyrenees.
According to a monk's work, Armagnac "sharpens the mind if taken in moderation", "stops tears from flowing", "cures hepatitis if drunk with sobriety", "looses the tongue and gives 'boldness to the timid' and 'the frequent anointing of a paralyzed member restores it to its normal state'.
And Izarra means 'Star'. Don't know if it means you will become a star or if you will start gazing at the stars!

thanks ouranos! we are staying close to mystic mama, so i will start their! i suspect all the books will be in french, otherwise i would buy any english books of barbaults.. as for the special liquor, i you see any outrageous posts from me in the next few days, that will explain it.. thanks for your kindness.. cheers james

james_m wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:55 pm i you see any outrageous posts from me in the next few days, that will explain it..

uh oh

Glad to hear you're having a great time in France, James!