Skyscript Astrology Forum

No, the seven-day week seems to have been introduced (in specific, limited contexts) in the early medieval period. See, for instance, this paper by Jeffrey Kotyk, whom I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Martin Gansten wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 6:16 amSee, for instance, this paper by Jeffrey Kotyk, whom I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Thank you for the link!
This paper loads very badly in my machine and so I cannot read it compleately. But a search for “week” was successful. I could see that it mentions the transmission of astrology from the Near East to India around the late fourth century CE. I could not find when the assignement from planets to days (and hours) started and which planet was this “first day”.

I think we can assume that the introduction of astrological lore into China, both from India (in a Buddhist context) and from Persia, was carried out by people who already kept track of the days of the week. In other words, the origin of the system would be much earlier, and outside China.

The astrology we are studying now originates from ancient Babylonian astrology.
It seems they had a reverence/worship for the five planets?

Georgius,

Perhaps looking into the calendar we use today—the Gregorian calendar—might provide the answer you are looking for? For instance, which is the day start on a Monday? Sometimes it is a matter of human convention. Particularly with calendars, they are often established and promulgated by kings to "control" the activities of others, making it easier for people to work together.

Once we determine which day is Monday, the rest will be straightforward. The first planetary hour of each day starts from sunrise.

I found an answer online, but I'm not sure if it's correct.

Julian calendar was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46 BC, and its January 1st was a Monday.

The Lords of the Hours correspond with the Lords of the Day. In horary there a considerations before judgement and they consider the Lord of the Hour of the question. So I think there must be more than just social convention. (And if you look at my example of a not foreseen death than you see why I am curious about considerations.)

Martin Gansten wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 9:04 am […] the origin of the system would be much earlier, and outside China.

Yes, that sounds plausibly. My interest is more about how this system or rather its starting point was found and to a lesser extent when.

Why is June 27, 2024, a Thursday?
The calendar we currently use is the Gregorian calendar, which evolved from the Julian calendar.
The Julian calendar was proposed in 46 BC by (and takes its name from) Julius Caesar, as a reform of the earlier Roman calendar, which was largely a lunisolar one. It took effect on January 1, 45 BC, by his edict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
Through calculation:
1. Determining the year and date:
- January 1, 45 BC corresponds to the year -44 (since 1 BC corresponds to 0 AD).
2. Julian day number calculation: The computation results in 0.
Correspondence:
- 0: Monday
- 1: Tuesday
- 2: Wednesday
- 3: Thursday
- 4: Friday
- 5: Saturday
- 6: Sunday
Therefore, January 1, 45 BC, was a Monday.

The Julian day number (JDN) is the integer assigned to a whole solar day in the Julian day count starting from noon Universal Time, with Julian day number 0 assigned to the day starting at noon on Monday, January 1, 4713 BC, proleptic Julian calendar (November 24, 4714 BC, in the proleptic Gregorian calendar),[4][5][6] a date at which three multi-year cycles started (which are: Indiction, Solar, and Lunar cycles) and which preceded any dates in recorded history.[a] For example, the Julian day number for the day starting at 12:00 UT (noon) on January 1, 2000, was 2451545.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day


def julian_day_number(year, month, day):
if month <= 2:
year -= 1
month += 12
A = year // 100
B = 2 - A + A // 4
JDN = int(365.25 * (year + 4716)) + int(30.6001 * (month + 1)) + day + B - 1524.5
return JDN

# Calculate JDN for 45 BC, January 1st
JDN_45_BC_Jan_1 = julian_day_number(-4712, 1, 1)
day_of_week = (JDN_4713_BC_Jan_1 + 1.5) % 7
print(day_of_week)


outcome: 4

January 1, 4713 BC is Friday?

That’s nice, Wei, but I can not see that it answers my question. I’m looking for the deeper astrological meaning of asigning Wednesday to this June 26th 2024 for example.

Wei, what you are outlining is a method of finding what day of the week a given date (in whatever calendar system) corresponds to, once the convention of the seven-day week was in place. Georgius's question was about how that convention arose in the first place.

At some point in history, someone decided to assign planetary rulers (in the so-called Chaldean order) to the 24 hours in a day and night, beginning with Saturn as the ruler of the first hour after sunrise on a particular day, and from that assignation, the planetary rulers of the seven-day week were determined. Once we have established this order, we can project it forwards or backwards in time, even to dates before the seven-day week existed. But the question is on what basis the originator(s) of the system decided on what day to start the count, as there is no objective correlative of it in the sky.

no matter how you slice it, any day is just another day.. it is a human invention to give them names and put them in a 7 day week - another human invention - week and month and etc.. it is supposed to reflect the cycles we live in - month for moon and etc. etc. - but outside of how we get months - days and names of days - is all man made and arbitrary... today could be named any day of the week.. someone started the tradition - made some calendar - and the rest is history - human history of arbitrarily setting these descriptions as such...

Here is the information I currently have. If you find more detailed information, please remember to share it with us. Thank you.

The Week: A History of the Unnatural Rhythms That Made Us Who We Are

*David M Henkin*

The author discusses how unlike a year or a month, a week of seven days is not a natural rhythm found in the natural world. While the sun dictates day, season, and year, and the moon dictates each month, a week of seven days is a human invention (it could also be a week of five or ten days).

Etymologically, "Week" derives from Old English "wice" or "wicu," indicating a time cycle. The root of the word, "wikōn-," comes from Proto-Germanic, meaning "change" or "turning," reflecting the cyclical and periodic nature of time.

The origin of the seven-day week dates back to ancient civilizations, particularly the Babylonians:

1. **Astronomical Observations**:
- The Babylonians observed seven primary celestial bodies in the sky: the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn. They associated each of these celestial bodies with a day of the week.

2. **Religious and Astrological Significance**:
- Babylonian religious rituals and astrology were closely tied to these seven celestial bodies, leading them to adopt a seven-day cycle. They believed these celestial bodies had significant influences on daily life and destiny.

Influence of Judaism:

1. **Biblical Accounts**:
- In the Bible, specifically in Genesis, it is recorded that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day. Thus, Judaism adopted the seven-day period, with the seventh day being the Sabbath (Shabbat).

Spread in the Roman Empire:

1. **Hebrew and Christian Traditions**:
- The Jewish seven-day week system spread through Christianity and became a universal time unit in the Christian world.

2. **Adoption by the Roman Empire**:
- With the widespread adoption of Christianity as the state religion in the Roman Empire, the Romans also adopted the seven-day week system, which gradually spread throughout the regions under Roman rule.

The specific origin of the first Monday or Sunday is unclear. There is no definitive historical record or single decision-maker; rather, it was a gradual process.

Wei wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:12 pm The Babylonians observed seven primary celestial bodies in the sky: the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn. They associated each of these celestial bodies with a day of the week.

Does the author cite any textual sources for this claim? As the days of the week are manifestly based on the planetary hours, that would mean that the latter, too, originated in the Babylonian tradition.