9th Harmonic
The 9th Harmonic (Novile) is a way to compare what planets resonate or are activated at the same time in a relationship.

A quick approach between Trump and Harris focusing on the closest aspects.


1
The most striking aspect between both is
Trump's 9th H Saturn = Kamala's 9th H MC
Trump's natal Saturn-Venus = Kamala's 9th H MC

As you can see, they share a Saturn/MC relationship together which is like a lesson to be learned when reaching for summits in your life. The MC says 'I want to reach that goal' and SA is saying 'No. Let me put some stumbling blocks to your goal.' There are some control issues about their public image. Keep in mind that Trump's natal SA is in detriment in Cancer and Harris's natal SA is in rulership in Aquarius but retrograde.

2
Trump's 9th H Sun = Kamala's 9th H Uranus
Kamala's natal Moon opp natal Sun = Trump's 9th Harmonic Sun

Sun/Uranus doesn't spell a lasting relationship. They show people who come and go in your life and when they leave, it's like you were hit by a tornado 'What happened?'
The second aspect Sun/Moon is striking because they are both born at FM and as you can see Trump's 9th H Sun is exactly on Kamala's natal Moon. So they both play on their opposition. Remember that Ptolemy relates marriage to the relationship Sun/Moon in sysnastry.
So these 2 are not to be invited to the same party.

3
Trump's 9th H Moon = Kamala's 9th H Mars
Trump's natal Moon opp natal Sun = Kamala's 9th Harmonic Saturn

This is an additional layer to #2
Kamala's Mars irritates Trump's Moon under his skin. And the childish behavior of Trump irritates her to the outmost. Stop whining and complaining, grow up kid.
And Kamala's Saturn stands in the way of Trump's Sun. She brings clouds to his desire of shining.

4
Trump's Mars = Kamala's Neptune

This one speaks by itself. Whatever Trump is doing brings confusion in Kamala. Like 'Why is doing this?' She doesn't understand.

James wrote:

Therese wrote:
"(1) The powerful Jupiter trine points to the Sun above the cusp of the 7th house. The Sun is in a star of Mars (strong), but in Saturn’s sub, a negative since the Sun rules Trump’s six and 7th house and is in the natal 12th house."

James replied:
it is the sub lord saturn which rules the 12th house of the chart not the sun... saturn is in the 12th of that biwheel chart at the bottom of your 1102pm post.. well that whole line is confusing to me still, lol!!

All sub comments in those three posts refer back to the natal chart. But you pointed out a typing error. Thank you. It should be "since SATURN rules Trump's six....etc." It was difficult for me to put together those three posts and is why I asked to have errors pointed out. I've corrected the mistake you noted. I don't use house lords within the ennead charts, but only the houses themselves where planets happen to be located. If I mention the ruler of a house, it would be the house ruler in the natal chart only.

btw, i am reading from a few folks in the san fran area who have the exact opposite view on kamala harris... as an outsider, i have no idea how accurate any of it is!!!

Kamala was born in Oakland across the bay from San Francisco. I know there has been talk of Kamala Harris being an outsider, but at this time my tired mind doesn't comprehend the details. I might look it up on the Internet and edit this post later.

Vis-à-vis divisional and harmonic charts: I learned something last year that I thought was quite helpful (from a post from a Jyotishi on Facebook) about the difference between divisional charts (as used in Jyotish) and the harmonic charts (those I've only encountered in Western astrology books).
Harmonic charts and divisional charts are calculated with different methods, so most harmonic charts will differ from their divisional counterparts.
However, D-9 (Navamsa) and H-9 *are* the same chart, and D-7 (Saptamsa) and H-7 are the same chart, as well. I don't know if there are any others like that.
If anyone can explain the difference more clearly, I'd like to understand. The FB post I read said "However, all harmonic charts are constructed on the principle of cyclic (parivrittiya) rotation."

Navamsa Chart Note:
The primary use of the navamsa chart has been to add information to the natal planets, if a navamsa planet is in a helpful or detrimental sign. It's only some western students who compare navamsa charts as Ouranos has done. The main use of the navamsa chart has been for the chart owners themselves.

Omphalos, it's true that some of India's divisional (varga) charts are straight harmonics such as the navamsa chart. But other divisional charts use different methods of calculation. I don't think anyone has explained why these differences exist. Calculation methods for these charts are just standard in traditional and classic India texts.

Hi Therese.
As I understood it, there is:
(a) a general method for generating divisional charts (always the same method/formula, no matter which divisional it is, such as D-9, D-2, D-12, etc.)
and;
(b) a general method for calculating harmonic charts (the same method/formula for all the harmonic charts, such as H-9, H-2, H-12, etc.)
But for these specific two pairs of charts, the D-9 and H-9, and the D-7 and H-7, (a) and (b) actually produce or generate the exact same chart - the same Lagna, same planetary positions, etc. These two pairs of charts somehow end up being the same, but it's the exception, not the rule.
I am sure there is a deep mathematical reason that the 9th and the 7th divisional and harmonic charts are exactly the same. But I don't understand the mathematics. I tried to understand it last year when I was reading about it, but I couldn't grasp it. I've seen demonstrations about how a rashi is divided up into amsas to generate a divisional chart, which is like the dodecatemoria charts (available on Astro.com), but I can't translate that into a mathematical formula or technique. There must be one - that's how software would do it, like Shri Jyoti Star or Jhora. Mathematical formulas are findable online for harmonic charts.
I started looking for an explanation for the difference between divisional and harmonic charts when I realized that the 9th harmonic chart on Astrodienst actually was the same as the Navamsa (9th) chart from Jhora, and I wondered why. The 12th harmonic chart is also different from dodecatemoria/dvadashamsha (dwads) chart on Astro.com. I wanted to know why.
I didn't know the D-7 and H-7 were also the same chart until I read the article on Facebook that I mentioned above.
I've probably only added to the confusion here! If so, my regrets!

ouranos 1141pm post..

harmonic and divisional charts get used a lot of different ways.. i first immersed myself in the study of harmonic charts with david hamblins work.. that's going back at least 20 or maybe 30 years ago! he has a few books on harmonic charts that i recommend.. i then went backwards and spent a lot of time studying john addeys work who was a type of pioneer in this area at the time, although the work is preceded by indian astrology which have been working with divisional charts for a much longer time.. i can tell you that western astrology approaches are quite different then how indian astrology uses the info, even if aside from working in a different zodiac, you can get many - although not all off the same data using the same mathematical procedures.. well, now it is all down by computer, so there is a lot less brain power required.. at any rate, it was only in the past 6 or so years that i got into trying to understand indian astrologys use and work with divisional charts.. so, i can say it is different then what i have read from the best known western astrologers i mentioned up above..

your chart is an interesting hybrid.. hard to know if it has any bearing or not!! thanks for sharing!!

therese, 1153 pm post...

thanks! as i said, i knew it was a lot of work for you to share all that and i appreciated it..


omphalos

what therese says to you in her post @ 1216am is right.. you need to do more research to understand exactly what the differences are and how some of the divisional charts are arrived at via different methodology.. i recommend getting a copy of vp goels book Comprehensive Prediction By Divisional Charts..

https://www.amazon.ca/Predict-Comprehen ... 8189221663

you can probably order it off sagar publications in delhi and get it cheaper then via amazon. the david hamblin and david addey books, i recommend as well.. cheers..

James wrote:

I recommend getting a copy of vp goels book Comprehensive Prediction By Divisional Charts..

Exotic India Art has Goel's book for $30.60 with free delivery. I've ordered from Exotic India in the past. They're always prompt usually with free delivery, and the books are very well wrapped. Thanks for recommending the book, James. The many illustrated charts are in India's square format. When I study Indian texts I usually re-draw the charts in the western circle form. I made pages of empty circular charts to use. (Amazon has that book for $82 USD. Crazy!!)

I can't vouch for the material in Goel's book because I studied it years ago, and don't remember what I read. It was published in 2010. The book is almost 400 pages.

Hi - Vedic divisional charts are different to Western Harmonic Charts. John Addey explores this in great detail in Ch. 11 of Harmonics in Astrology (The Navamsa or Ninth Harmonic Chart).

His explanation of how to create a Vedic navamsa chart is quite clear. It is based on the division of each zodiac sign into nine sections each 3 degs 20 mins long. Each division is assigned to a zodiac sign. The cycle commences with the first 3 deg 20 min division of Aries, which is assigned to Aries, the second division of Aries is assigned to Taurus, the third division of Aries is assigned to Gemini, and so on around the complete zodiac.

In the Navamsa chart thus generated, the positions of each planet are generally noted by sign rather than by degree. So, in the Rasi (birth chart), the degree position of a planet within a division is not especially relevant.

Most introductory books on Vedic astrology will contain information on creating the basic sixteen divisional charts (the Shodasavargas). Some are created by a methodology similar to the one described above, but some use different principles.

Hence, I think it would be misleading to say that all divisional charts are corollaries of the Western equivalents. For example, the Dwadashamsa chart is calculated with 12 divisions of each sign, but the divisions are not assigned in a continuous zodiacal cycle. Each new natal sign begins with its own sign, so a sign is skipped at the end of each zodiac sign. I don't think this yields a chart similar to the Western 12th harmonic chart.

For example, in Joe Biden's chart, in the 12th Western Harmonic, the Sun is in Pisces at 00 43 and the Ascendant is in Taurus at 08 12 (tropical positions). The tropical natal positions, translated into the Dwadashamsa chart, would yield a Sun in Libra and Ascendant in Capricorn. The sign positions in the 9th Western Harmonic do correspond with those in the Navamsha chart, but I would be wary to say there is an interpretative similarity between the two charts. The correspondence in sign positions is due to the zodiacally continuous division of the natal chart into 3 deg 20 min sections described above.

Ed

Vedic divisional charts are different to Western Harmonic Charts. John Addey explores this in great detail in Ch. 11 of Harmonics in Astrology (The Navamsa or Ninth Harmonic Chart).

Exactly!
The Western approach in synastry will show what planets resonate together in the Novile series (40 degrees and to some extent the semi-novile 20 degrees).
For example, when a transit hits the FM aspect of Trump, it resonates with the FM of Harris. It is sort of an investigation of the wave flowing between 2 persons.
A good example was the 9th Harmonic AS of Lennon = the natal AS-NE of McCartney and the blend of their personalities.
In this regard, we could say that there is always a wave between 2 individuals. We just need to find out on what wave they are hooked up together.

Thanks Ouranus - Addey was very clear about harmonic charts being a way of analysing wave interactions around the chart. His whole book is really a description of this way of thinking about the chart and the zodiac. He sets out his wave-based views in Chapter 2 especially. My understanding is that his work was quite revolutionary at the time.

Interestingly, I am not sure that the sidereal zodiac could be used with Addey's harmonics, because the fundamental tone is set by the beginning of the the tropical zodiac, the nodal point we describe as the vernal equinox. There is no such node in the sidereal zodiac at the beginning of sidereal Aries, the reference point being set by a fiducial star. The tropical nodal point 00 Aries 00 is created at/by the intersection of two astronomical planes, the ecliptic and the celestial equator and all waves are generated from this point in Addey's theory.

At the risk of over-playing the digital/analog analogy - Western harmonics are very much an analog technique, and Vedic divisional charts seem to me to be a digital technique. Digital techniques use blocks of data; analog techniques use continuous waves as data.

Other digital techniques in Western astrology include terms/bounds, time lords, decans etc. One might even argue that the zodiac itself has traditionally been understood as a twelve-fold digital division of the ecliptic. What Addey did was show that the zodiac could be seen as a series of interacting waves, and therefore has an analog form too.

One risk of using this digital/analog view is that we set up the following train of thought: digital=modern=good; analog=old=bad, because of our love of digital technology. No such good/bad distinction is implied. There are two sets of phenomenon at work, and each brings its own insights.

Ed

Thanks for taking the time to respond Therese.

Therese Hamilton wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:23 pm The navamsa chart, so very important in Indian astrology, divides each sign of the zodiac into nine sub signs, beginning with Aries-Aries and running through the entire zodiac. Then the navamsa chart is set up which displays in which signs natal planets fall in the navamsa. You can probably get a better understanding by doing a search for "navamsa" on the Internet. If you understand harmonics, the navamsa is a simple 9th harmonic chart.

Ah...looked it up, the are the same 3°20' divisions from the look of it. I've never used harmonics so that's a whole other rabbit hole I'm not willing to travel through right now.

The Ennead is a division of TIME, based on the degree, minute and second of the natal Sun. Donald Bradley, I think, meant to emphasize the importance of the numeral NINE in Indian astrology: Nine sub signs in each sign of the zodiac; Nine periods of time in each solar year (40 day each).

So totally different from profecting the 9ths; did not realize it was based on the Sun. Very different approach.
Thanks again.