Andrew,
Thank you kindly for taking the time to look at the horary.

Your question is asked on the day of Mars and in the hour of Saturn. I am not be quite comfortable with the relationship between the lord of the hour and the radical Sagittarius ascendent, or lack of such, which shows discord and that the matter may fall short of your wishes or expectation.

I know that this does not fall within the traditional rules for planetary agreement, but given that I have asked a question about my investments which is signified by Saturn, and it is the hour of Saturn, don't you think it gets *some* level of radicality?

Also with your significator in the 12th you are up against forces of which you have no control, matters "larger than life" or which are carried by the weather and the wind... I don't know whether you can be comfortable with this.

Interesting observation... Actually, I am rather apprehensive that the stock market is going to take a dive tomorrow. It usually takes a dive the next day, if it's gone up enough the previous day. So I went ahead and sold 3 of my positions already (out of 14 or 15). I had decided to sell these even before I read your article, and the article and horary gave me further credence to go ahead and just do it. However, I hesitated from selling the lot because I wanted to wait to see your response. It's a shame that your response came after 4 PM, which is when the markets close. But then again, this correspondence started late in the day anyway. It is 5:30 PM now. All transactions for buy or sell are executed at the end of the business day. So if the market starts to dive tomorrow, even if I sold my positions early in the morning, they would be executed at the end of day closing price - a matter that is "out of my control". So let's see where that goes...

Your signifcator is in 19 Scorpio, often causes a harassment of plans, however your significator does apply to the dexter square of Saturn, ruler of the 2nd (your money) through signs of long ascension, who receives Jupiter in his terms, so you should be able to make a secure move and maneuver out of the situation to your advantage.

How do the signs of long ascension work in horary? I"m sorry, I'm very unfamiliar with this.

In the case of this chart it might not serve you to sit too long with your present speculations, because both Moon and Saturn are cadent and in fixed signs, so if things do go wrong you will be sat in this position until eternity.

Well, that makes sense, because if the market dives before I sell, I will probably wait until the market goes back up again so that I can get a better price, and that may never happen - it may just continue to go down.

So my opinion would be "Oh blow it! Let's give the stock market a break. We are at a top after a 10% rize since July. I don't really want to be a part of this if it does come down again and I don't feel all that happy with my exposiure". Sell and relax.

I agree. What you say is common sense, and the astrological trends say the market is going to go down anyway. It's best to combine the two, as opposed to following one blindly and not the other.

I hope that gives some sense of security. Andrew

Thank you so much. Your introduction to Financial Astrology is enlightening. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

Fascinating stuff, Andrew! Contributions by everybody else are equally interesting.

I haven't really had an opportunity to become an expert on financial astrology although I did read a few books and study markets, etc. From my research, I can confirm that all factors play a part, including outer planets, asteroids, declination, harmonics, and so on and so forth. Astrology is much more complicated than we want it to be, and this I think is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to predict the markets with confidence. There is a very good chance for stocks to come down in October, and I'm curious how the timing will pan out.

Thanks again for sharing!

Concerning radicality: Sure. As you say, when the lord of the planetary hour also is the lord of the matter enquired this gives relevance to the chart and matters should be judged according to that planet. However, you might notice that I do pass judgement according to the relationship between the lord of the hour and the lord of the ascendant. I thought you might raise this point and you find my ideas on these relationships on the 2nd half of the article written on planetary hours www.astronor.com/hours. The aspect between the lord of the hour and the lord of the ascendant is treated under section 6).

So you already reduced your position! Ho! There is Pluto in the first house for you. I think that reduce is an excellent strategy to be followed by any trader!

I meant to comment Yesterday about the warning issued in the chart by the Sun in the 10th house in conjunction with the fixed start Vindemiatrix ( www.astronor.com/vindemiatrix ) in sextile through signs of long ascension to the Ascendant, who has the 'dare-devil' Antares on the cusp. In the same way that the Moon often is used to show what is happening, the Sun often says something about the background scenes. The market is in a state of tension and might capsize.

In brief, the sextiles through signs of short ascension often convert to a square and the square converts a trine, through the signs of short ascension the trine converts to a square and the square works out like a sextile. Ie. the square though signs of long ascension starts out in trouble but utilizes the experience to come out on top. The trine through signs of short ascension has an excellent starting position but may make the mistake of resting on his laurels and matters slip through his fingers due to carelessness. There are some of my notes to be found on www.astronor.com/sinister - if that is any use.

A few words in response to Aquirata: I totally agree with you! Astrology may prove and excellent tool and addition to understand what ever you do but is is important to have the essential field knowlede. If you want to work with the stock market you have to know the stock market. If you want to predict earthquakes - that the field you have got to know something about. I think it is a mistake when people expect the astrologers to know everything and come up with all the answers - the essential is to exchange observations and work alongside people who know what they are up to and who can check out if that build up of tension that you suspect actually makes sense.

I was speaking with an analyst of international stature the other day, Lars Lindgren, who, if I understood him correctly pointed out that due to the US election this year markets tends to be manipulated and held up, because those in power, the Republicans, want to look good.

If that is the case (and I don't doubt that it is - there have been articles floating around in the "underground" press here indicating as such), then I think the government will continue to try to keep the market artificially inflated through November 3rd, so we may not see anything happen until after that.

Now here's something that I don't quite understand, but I think is an accurate reflection of what the horary is saying. Even though the Dow rose considerably yesterday, EACH of my positions actually lost money and my portfolio went down in value since yesterday. Under normal circumstances, my portfolio always reflects the movement of the Dow, but this time it didn't. Very curious...

I sold most of my other positions today and actually feel pretty good about what I've done, just hoping that the prices will sustain through 4 PM. I'm hoping that the square of Jupiter to Saturn in the sign of long ascension that you mentioned will convert into the trine, as you indicated, and I am able to manipulate my way to a better position. If that is the case, then the prices should sustain through today. Let's see what happens...

- T7 -

Mercury, ruler of the solar eclipse, passed through the exaltation degree of the Moon's South Node at 3 Scoripio yesterday - and FED chief Bernanke spoke of weakness in the housing market. However, the market response was funny really (Moon applying to conjunction of Uranus), liked what it heard and took courage to believe in the FED's strategy of a "soft landing" for the US economy. But does that really give the something to run to an All Time High for? Anyhow, the DJIA did extended to the upside in a movement which is technically termed either an "exhaustion" og a second retracement were the market has made its othodox top but a retracement extends to the upside before plumiting into the red.

This would of course be excellent for anyone wanting to get out of long positions, but it is a highly disturbing move for anyone calling for a significant drop. The is what the market psychology is all about - and it really does get to you.

The oil-driven Norwegian market opened down 1% on Wednesday, completing a 4,7% drop in the last 3 days due to a collapse in the oil price but the market decided it was going too far too fast and rebounded to close 1% higher.

The markets should be given a few more days as to work out what is going with the timing. The full moon which follows the solar eclipse is coming up. I also have questions regarding the southern latitude of Mercury whether that could signify some delay.

Good thing I didn't sell everything on Tuesday, because I managed to recoupe some of my losses from the rise in the market yesterday..

A few questions...
You mention:

The full moon which follows the solar eclipse is coming up.

I'm sorry if I missed something from your prior posts, but what does this signify in the context of the current conditions with the DJIA?

And also:

This would of course be excellent for anyone wanting to get out of long positions, but it is a highly disturbing move for anyone calling for a significant drop.

Can you elaborate on this a bit?
Thank you for your time.

P.S> I notice that the Dow is starting to spiral downwards today...

- T7 -

No problem T7!! : With the solar eclipses the market may logically make a turning point at the full moon either before or after. The Norwegian market made its top on September 6. with the full moon and lunar eclipse preceeding the solar eclipse of September 22. ( check out www.astronor.com/config.07102006 ) Maybe that is the answer; that the US markets will top with the coming full moon in Aries. I don't know - that's just a speculation. I am a bit bothered by the fact that markets aren't showing more obvious weakness at the moment. The warnings are issued and the turning point seems overdue but then sell-offs and crashes often come suddenly.

To your second question - when the market comes off it's high it often retraces or give the investors a second top to be able to get out of their positions. This is most often a lower top and many investors holding shares wait for the market to come up to the old high so they can get out at the previous best price. But then, most often, a lot of sellers are lined up with the same thoughts so the selling comes early and a second lower top is established.

However, at the end of an extensive rally the market behave erratic and the 2nd retracement or 2nd top actually overshoots the previous high (which traders call the orthodox top) before an even more dramatic turn to the downside. Imagine a car with a trailer doing a 180 degree turn at high speed - the second retracement and higher top is when the trailer overshoots the car before it is dragged back into its new direction.

Exhaustion rallies can get pretty wild because everyone thinks that the sky is the limit. But T7, when everyone wants in and wants what you've got - that's an excellent time to get out.

My predictions so far have made sense in regard to oil and the Norwegian market but nothing I have seen yet is even close to what I expect from international market (except the UK gaming sector). When the international markets start to fall that is likely to bring the Norwegian market back on track and further down, too.

Are you certain it wont be the moon that triggers this stuff?

For instance around 7/8 of October the moon passes 3 Tau, and arround the 20th it passes 2 SCo. And being it is an eclips thing... Also Sun Hits 3 Sco on the 27th of October which could also be the indicator. Also Venus and Mars BOTH hit 3 sco same day as sun, so if that is indeed the big degree to watch I would expect that the 25-27th of October would be HUGE trading days one way or another...

But I'm still a bit uncertain as to Why 3 Sco is more important that 29 Virgo, where the solar eclipse occured? (Moon passes 29 Virgo around the 19th of October)

Granny
(PS, oil is rather obviously being manipulated, so dont pay as much attention to that as other indicators. Especially in California it is being manipulated there is an oil innitiative on ballot and things are really heating up, take that out of the equation and see if things make more sense. I dont understand the analysis as much as the psychology)

Hi Granny, Since I live in Norway it is impossible for me to leave out the oil. Oil is everything for the Norwegians. If oil rises - so does the the stock market - in almost every sector. If the energy sector falls, Norwegian equities fall with it. The heavy oil focus often causes the Norwegian market to behave differently than other international markets and puts it somewhere else in its cycle. From our perspective, however, it has been impressive to see how, say, the US market has adopted to oil prices up toward $80 without seriously damaging earnings. Now the Norwegian bourse is also a tiny gesch?ft, since we only have 5mill inhabitants - our market is 70% driven by foreigners. When the foreigners move their monies Norwegians are simply victims to the ride. Therefore the Norwegian market also tends to overreact either to the upside or the downside, and this overthrow is a recognized indicator of the shift in the international sentiment.

The reason 3 SCO was considered important in my analysis was due to the careful monitoring of the state of Mercury, ruler of the eclipse. Yes, the actual degree of the eclipse is very important but the movement of the ruler of the eclipse is probably more weighing than the transit of the Moon in this sense. In 1987 Mercury's first station coincided with investors world wide going into a frenzy reverse.

No doubt Mercurys entry into SCO was significant in the collapse of UK gaming shares but I still maintain that this is not enough. It could be that transits to the placement of Mercury at 15 LI (!!) in the chart of the solar eclipse is sensitive to transits. Mars tranist this degree on Monday 2nd Oct at the same time as Mercury entered Scorpio. The Sun will transit the degree on Monday 9th.

The movements of Venus and Mars are rather interesting through September and October because the planets are largely equally distant the Sun as the Sun catches up on Mars and Venus catches up on the Sun. The Sun is on the Venus/Mars midpoint for almost a month!!

The full Moon occuring in the 14th degree of Aries on October 7th should be considered as highly ominous of trouble and unrest. At this time Mars will be in the exact fall of the Sun at 18LI55. The exact exaltation of the Sun is calculated by the square of the entire zodiac, 360 degrees, and is at 18AR56. See http://www.astronor.com/exaltations.htm

Aha, then you might want to Track Oil Separately! I mena in a one stock town! goodness. expect oil to stay down until just after elections, in fact if you have a few euro to spare investing in a few shares now to sell post election day is not necessarilly a bad idea.

here is the why of it. CA being the 5th or 7th largest economy on the planet has a proposition oging called Prop 87, oil companies of course want it to fail and a few ecologiest want it to pass. While I find the idealism behind it laudible, I think its poorly written. But anyway, I would suggest that oil companies are keeping down their prices artificially to attempt to woo those voters, who are probably the largest consumers of oil if we do a run down of where oil goes... keeping that in mind CA was established as a state on 9 september 1850 (gold was discovered in 1849, hence the hurry up) possibly look at oil prices in connection to this state for now?

and possibly this site might also lend some thoughts?

http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/servs/pubs/geo ... eobit8.htm

or

http://www.seed.slb.com/qa2/FAQView.cfm?ID=906

Imean with a particular item, one probably wants to look at transits involved of the product and particular items of influence? or am I misunderstanding? (I do look at things oddly sometimes, I admit)

Oops, also wanted to say, orhow about the establishment of the particular company in question?

Granny

Thanks Granny ! :-) Some interesting links for sure. Thanks! However Norway is an oil nation and for personal purposes I'm sticking to things close to home. To say that everyone is in to oil in Norway would be an exaggeration but the Norwegian oil adventure is a part of our education and up bringing. It is the oil that makes Norway tick.

I don't know whether you know but the Government has put aside an oilfund which is so large now that we could buy the entire Manhattan if we wished. It's true. However, Norway has not always been a wealthy nation and while profits are good we put aside money for future generations.

Now the Norwegian market topped on the preceding full moon, but I'm quite certain that the solar eclipse of Sep 22. doesn't relate to oil. However, the solar eclipse of Oct 3. 2005 did bring a 12,5% drop to the Norwegain market that was oil specific. I had the prediction printed on Norway's leading financial website, as they make room for my analysis and observations on occasion. The drop I now am looking for as indicated by the Autumns annular eclipse should be international. If the US market drops - Norwegian oil companies also get weighed down - no matter the oil price. When WTC got hit the first reaction of the Norwegian market was up because of the focus on oil - but after that it was down the drain.

My early work with the stock market in the 80's was quite basic in its design. It attempted to point out the turning points in the market but you never knew whether it was a bottom of a top that was indicated. You had to follow the market to find out where it was in its cycle and what was the most reasonable alternative. When doing these studies what impressed me was that I couldn't predict what would move the market. Some times it was the US trade balance (read 'deficit'), other times it was oil, dollar, intrest rates or uproar in a foreign country. The markets focus shifted according to what provided an acceptable excuse to auction in a specified direction.

The main indexes and benchmarks are the summation of all collective influences that add up to the collective psychology that reigns in the market. There will always be companies whose market values treads against the current of the stream - but they will always have a harder time than those that are subject to the compulsions of the flock of sheep.

When trying to understand the markets future movements it is neccessary to make some speculations on the chain of consequences that would lead to a certain market movement. We agree that there is something artificial about the existing market and one of the factors keeping the markets at their highs is the fact that it is an election year in the US. The US leaders obviously know that there is some big time dirt further down the line - wouldn't it be convenient if a North Korean nuclear test bomb caused a market uproar. Then the Bush would be able to say that any market drop would caused by such and any rebound would be due to the good work of his administration.

Kind regards, Andrew

Since this is already such a meaty thread I had to wait till I had some free time then print it off and read through it before making any comments. My comments are actually a bit diverse, but I will try and deal with them in some sort of logical order.

First the general principles. The following applies whether the astrologer is trading on their own account or advising a client. I totally concur with Andrew?s view that you can?t just look at one or two factors. I know that many financial astrologers so this sort of thing ( ie track venus into scorpio over 100 years and then say ?right on 70 occasions the market went down therefore?..?) but the universe is both a dynamic and a whole entity and I prefer to look at things holistically ? the reason Venus into Scorpio correlated with a fall might have been due to other positions that held for a number of years. Eg Pluto by sign, aspects such as the Neptune Pluto aspect which last a long time, or the Uranus ?Chiron opposition that lasted a few decades (although personally I have never attempted to use Chiron in financial stuff). Thus, when these long term aspects dissipate, the Venus (or whatever other) rule you are using, might cease to apply.

Therefore I always start with the bigger picture (bigger planetary cycles) and work inwards to the moon. And, as I am not strongly Virgoan, I try to stick to medium and long term trends rather than try to forecast day-to-day or hour-to-hour trading? I think to incorporate the latter, one must to consider asteroids, midpoints and heaven knows what else- I think it can be done ( I am of the opinion that astrology is 100% right if one incorporates the infinite factors!!!!) but personally I don?t have the patience. Furthermore, I have attempted in the past to use just cycles to forecast in much the same way as a technical analyst would do and I have concluded that this is not enough either. I am not a chartist, instead I stick to charts By that cryptic remark I mean that I don?t forecast just on the basis of the transiting cycles themselves, I only make forecasts where I have a reliable astrological chart for the item under consideration. The reasoning for this is that although there are correlations between some markets/shares/commodities/whatever the correlation is not 100% - and they can diverge suddenly and ?unexpectedly?. Only specific charts will tell you that.

I also agree with Andrew?s view that you should stick to what you know financially as well as astrologically. i.e to your own country/currency/markets ? or at least countries where you have worked/lived/and feel you know the culture/government/business style etc. And makes sure you incorporate all the charts you need to form a decision. I particularly like currencies, but I stick to the ones I have reliable charts for both sides of the pair. So I would take a position on the Euro vs dollar because I have good working charts for BOTH but not the Euro vs Yen as I don?t have a chart that I am sure works for the latter. Similarly it isn?t enough to look at a specific corporations stock/shares in isolation ? you have to see it in the context of the whole economy and the market on which it is quoted. No good buying a great share which will outperform the market by 20% - if that overall market is about to collapse by 50%! You are still going to lose.

Because of all the above, I also concur with the view that financial astrology is an area where a little knowledge is extremely dangerous ( although I am of the opinion that this applies to all sectors of astrology including basic personal chart analysis and that in fact psychological damage can be a lot more serious than financial damage).

That doesn?t mean people shouldn?t dabble ? especially to learn, ( I liked Granny?s quotes on this matter) but only with what they can afford. Plus unless you are very reckless it is sensible to take note of the odds when deciding how much to bet. If you are 100% sure of an outcome ? you can put 100% of your resources on one bet, but if you are only 2/3 sure of an outcome then splitting funds into three and making three totally separate deals means you are likely to lose once and win twice putting yourself ahead. Keep doing this and you can gain slowly but surely. Of course this is not failsafe ? probability theory will tell you it would only be so if you bet an infinite number of times.- but it does reduce the practical risks and make you focus on what you can and can?t afford to lose.


That?s my take on the theory. Now the application. My view was ( still is) that the US market ( and UK probably too) would fall either, a bit prematurely just due to the triggering power of eclipses, at the eclipse on September 22nd, or more likely during the period from 22nd to 26th October. The reason for the latter dates was obviously partly the large conjunction of new moon conjunct Venus and Mars, which suggests a turning point of some sort, but also, more particularly, the final Jupiter Saturn square, further triggered by both Mercury and the Moon.

The interaction of the Neptune Jupiter and Saturn squares have been playing out all year, and especially since August, with positive news one day followed by negative the next, but until Jupiter moves past Saturn, I think Jupiter is dominating the issue. I didn?t expect such an increase post September 22nd, I expected more uncertainty but the most recent square is the Jupiter Neptune one? highly expansionary and extremely inflationary and I now see that as the driver until Jupiter reaches Saturn. However we have had some hedge fund failures as expected and of course the perfect expression of these three planets ? regulation over internet gambling.? I think perhaps we haven?t heard the last of this batch of hedge fund problems and won?t until post October ? or even the end of the Saturn Neptune square in early 2007.

I still expect some bad economic news to trickle out of the US around the 22-26th and to shock the markets. However Andrew mentions the US govt/FED financial actions that are helping to prop up both the Dow and the dollar at present. A few years ago in the run up to a US election/or mid term ( maybe October 2000 I don?t recall exactly) ? I noticed intuitively strange movements in the currency and stock markets. I thought it was just me not understanding something fundamental. But I noticed them again in 2002 and was of no doubt. And here they are again and now I have found sites which discuss these ?activities?. But note that no amount of govt manipulation can override the astrology ? the US economic charts will show the interventions if you look for them.

However the existence of these actions means I have revised my view a little ? in that I no longer expect an enormous one-off fall at that time in October ? although I do expect a dramatic change of direction. It may be that the real hit is around mid/late November once the inner planets have moved past Jupiter and are also squaring Saturn, and of course after the mid-terms have finished.

In the longer term I am expecting the dollar to fall again against the Euro, both by next spring and, after a bit of a recovery again, to fall on a much grander scale over the coming few years. I expect the markets to recover from the outcome of the above faster than the dollar but in the longer term I expect a much greater unwinding of the world financial situation. Neptune in the form of excess credit has been creating an illusion of prosperity ( apparent GDP growth etc etc) in the US ( and the UK and elsewhere too) for two decades and it is not a question of whether the system will give but when. The timing is where the astrology comes in. But enough of that for now.