13 by Tom Mark: In Bush's case, his Sun "gets out" by virtue of its being in aspect to its two dispositors, Moon and Jupiter. This explains why a man with his ASC ruler in the 12th would seek the limelight. There will be, I believe, some residual 12th house effects. On the other hand I agree with you that at times, some of the authorities tend to ignore some of the conventional wisdom to great effect, such as planets in the 12th, 8th, and 6th having trouble getting out. Usually though, there are mitigating factors in those cases. Astrology has as many loopholes as it does regulations. Tony: For the record Stallone was born into poverty in the Hell's Kitchen area of New York City. His father was a beautician, but, according to Sly, a very tough man. As a child, Stallone was teased unmercifully because of his first name and the slight paralysis on his face due to a difficult forceps delivery. When he reached adolescence he was nothing but a trouble maker managing to get kicked out of ten schools as a discipline problem. In his last "school," a reformatory, he was voted by his other classmates as most likely to end up in the electric chair. I think this is what is meant b the phrase "troubled youth." As a child, he and his younger brother lived with relatives to get them out of the home due to the horror of his parent's marriage. He ended up in Philadelphia when his mother took him and his brother there after her divorce in 1957. His childhood experiences could not have been more different than George Bush's. Despite their relative difference in socioeconomic background, Stallone's success came much earlier than Bush's. Stallone had a troubled adolescence, Bush a troubled young adulthood. Stallone shot to the top with Rocky at about age 28. Bush settled down much later, and after an initial loss running for the House of Representatives defeated, in "Rocky-like" fashion, a popular incumbent Governor of Texas. The terms of the Moon seem to indicate a serious difference in background. I'm going to look at directions to angles to see if we can see the difference in timing before success. Then there is the other nagging question. Lots of people were born July 6, 1946. What happened to them and why? Tom Quote Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:14 pm