Thanks to everyone who posted on this one. After reading through all the comments I think I have my answer.

If the key part to astrology is time and that the time and the situation are meaningful, then let me say a few things about the time and events. I?d known my friend was going to ship out on January 3 for some time. We hadn?t really talked about it at all. He was stationed here alone with very few friends and he isn?t really close to the rest of his family. On the night before he shipped out I went over there to say goodbye. Like I said he was really in a panic. It occurred to me then that he didn?t really have a lot of other people around him, and knew I should do something to help in that moment. That?s when I did the chart on Astrodienst. I saw the answer as positive and that confidence allowed me to talk to him directly to tell him that he?d be OK. He could tell that I felt secure in what I was saying and that?s what he needed to hear. After that he calmed down noticeably, thanked me a lot and went about his duties. He didn?t ask me for my support but he really needed it and appreciated it. Like I said, he was all alone. He doesn?t even know the guys in his unit that well.

So the chart really was to give me some peace of mind, which is why I feel that he?s the 11th house and not the ASC. The chart gave me the security that I needed so that I could give him the security that he needed. It was about that moment of panic for both of us. I didn?t and wouldn?t tell him that I used astrology to do this. That would be an imposition on him, as he didn?t ask the question. Plus depending on what he thought about astrology, it may lessen whatever peace of mind I gave him. The chart was to help me help him, not to help him directly.

I?m very sure this is an 11th house friend and not some other house. I had no uncertainty about what?s in my heart.

Deb, I?m not sure if you meant that the late ASC means that it?s too late to help him because he?s already gone. I used the chart the night I did it as I described. He shipped out calmed down a lot the next morning.

I?m fairly sure that my answer to this chart was in that moment when I told my friend that he was going to be OK. With that in mind I am a lot less concerned about what that applying opposition of the Moon to Mercury and the Sun means.

I mentioned a chart where John Frawley does a medical chart for someone?s daughter. That?s on page 147 of The Real Astrology, under the heading Why is my daughter ill?. He does use both the turned and radical 6th and 8th houses.

Hi Mark,

To some extent, but my point was more that the late ascendant suggests the need for caution in judgement, because of the implications of the timing being inappropriate. But I?m glad you feel that the chart helped and that you got your answer.


Hi Steven,

Please don?t put yourself out trying to find that chart but I would be really interested in the details of it if and when you do come across it again. I haven?t yet explored Chris Warnock?s new CD on Lilly so I might come across it myself soon on there - if I do I?ll get the details to you of course. I?m definitely interested in checking out whether that was really invoking whole signs or whether there might be another explanation for that.

My point about sickness horaries is that there seemed to be an established decumbiture technique that was carried over into horary to place the patient on the ascendant. This seems suggested by Lilly?s instruction on timing and the assignation of significators on p.243 of CA. I don?t want to disrupt Mark?s thread or argue against the good judgement you made on the chart, but if we can locate that chart I think it would be a great idea to look into these issues as part of a discussion on that. If we don?t find it soon, I could always do the obvious and ask David for the details. I?m sure he?d oblige. It's a real pity his site is down (this might be temporary) but I'm not surprised that he's devoting more time to his Cvil War site, which really is excellent - ( http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk for those who haven't seen it).

Regards
Deb

Now I'm sure that this chart was one for fast action not for long thought. I read the chart, saw that it looked well and did my part for my friend. If I made any mistake it was to assume that there was more work ahead.

If anything maybe that's what the late ASC means, though I've never thought about it like that before. I'm thinking about the expiration date on a carton of milk. This chart's expiration date was about due - in other words use it in the short term not in the long term.

And I can't believe that I didn't notice that the Moon does NOT perfect its opostion to the Sun because Mercury prohibits it. And whatever Mercury signifies can't have much power as it's so close to combustion. Someone pointed that out ot me privately.

I don't mind if you stray off the topic. That's the life of the web. There are always general issues and specific issues with any chart. Just no "8th house = sex"

Great, Mark. I'm glad your apprehension has lifted. BUT I don't get the 8th house, sex joke? Can you 'splain? I have to assume that traditionalists use the 5th, is that the joke?

MD,

Yeah and it's a sure way to start an arguement with a traditionalist to say that the 8th house is sex. Thems fighin' words. Plus there was a topic on the forum two years ago about this bit of astrological quicksand that stretched on for what... 206 pages? What's the word for that discussion? Record setting? Infamous? Mind-numbing? Ahh yes, the good old days.

The upshot of the topic was that to assign sex to the 8th house is a relatively new idea and as my memory serves me I think it was Kim who found the earliest citation of this from somewhere around 50 years ago. But please lets not dredge this up again, please, please, please, please, please. The topic is archived out there somewhere so if you have a spare month or two you can read it all.

Deb gives solid reasoning for how everyone from the ancients up to recent times thought about all the houses in her book. A much better option that.

But please lets not dredge this up again, please, please, please, please, please.

Well why did you bring it up then?

And I can't believe that I didn't notice that the Moon does NOT perfect its opostion to the Sun because Mercury prohibits it. And whatever Mercury signifies can't have much power as it's so close to combustion. Someone pointed that out ot me privately.

This raises another issue, my first post was about the capacity of a peregrine or weak planet to prohibit.

If mercury is so weak, does it have the strength to prohibit ??

PD

As an aside, regarding the late ascendant, my first thought was that your friend is deploying, and therefore it's 'too late' for anything to be done about it, e.g. change the course of events in his life. This seems obvious, of course, but as I understand it you asked the question with the intention of bringing you/him some peace of mind. The late ascendant could then be read as 'it doesn't matter anyway'.

I found Steven's answer to prohibition interesting and logical, as well. The Moon is the stronger planet, in any case.

Everyone,

I'm more than happy with the outcome of this chart, but I think that another topic is in the making here based on Steven's quote from Masha'allah and what how Steven sees prohibition. So I'm starting another topic to pick up that line of thought.