Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hi to all,

this is an interesting chart . A bit like black and white, with very clear themes. First the bright side (being of French-Germanic origin, I?m not very proficient in English writing, so excuse me for using bullet points).

? Grand trine MC, Moon and Venus: should make the appearance good-looking, mild, charming and feminine (has already been confirmed by Tom).
? The stellium of the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars and Jupiter, squeezed in between Uranus and Pluto. This stellium forms many midpoint trees (180?) involving those planets. I see a lot of flirtatious sex appeal and drive (sometimes quickly aroused; Uranus!) in those trees. Mainly healthy, perhaps with the exception of Mars between Venus and Pluto which is a bit violent and has been observed with raped or abused women ? but also with the perpetrators.
? Mercury and Mars at the DC, both have just set within 5 Minutes before birth. ?According to Bob Makransky: ?ME/DC - Judicious ? You possess a down-home simplicity and objectivity (remoteness), and you are willing to take other people?s feelings and viewpoints into account. You are believable and reasonable, and hence inspire the trust of others?. And Mars/DC: ?Steadfast ? You are mild of manner, but iron-willed (headstrong). You are good-natured and obliging in the nonessentials, and have a knack for being forceful and unyielding without being overreaching or giving needless offence?. I have often observed that people with a ME/MA conjunction have a strong and loud voice ? and they use it, too!
Using the fixed stars (a VERY ancient technique), ALKES plays a role here. It is just setting, forming a paran aspect with Mercury and Mars. Brady says that this means she is carrying something ?precious? for others; representing an archetype. So I think that she is something like an idol for others. People can project something into her or what she is saying.

I think her strength lies in personal relations with other people. The 2nd quadrant is very strong. She can be very communicative and convincing in personal relationships or in small groups.
Other midpoints suggest that she is successful: AC=JU/PL, MA=JU/PL.

Coming to the darker side . Mainly the position of Saturn: most elevated, with midpoints MC=SA/NN, SA=MC/NE, and the square of Saturn to the stellium in Leo, with a very precise square to the Sun. Saturn is also the only planet in a prominent Gauquelin-Sector which would dominate her appearance towards others (besides Mars and Mercury at the angles).
I see problems and inhibitions with the public area here. She doesn?t like to be in the limelight. She has a great sense of duty and responsibility. Perhaps separation/alineation from her father. The feeling of having missed some duty (Sun-Saturn) and trying to make good.
The Moon is also inflicted by standing in the midpoint of Saturn/Pluto. Emotionally hard, or experiencing tragedies.

Other star parans suggest that she is very intense with the potential to be obsessed with a subject or a person (Sun-Antares). And also, that she is emotionally independent (Moon-Alpheratz). A Paran Mercury-Alphard would say that she is a holder of secrets, but in a problematic sense (secret service etc.).

Finally, to the signs/elements: Fire Fixed is dominant with a shot of air: this indicates a will-person, an initiator.

Looking forward to the revelation and more mystery charts!
Ren?

P.S.
I refrained from any suggestion what kind of profession she chose or any other choices that are completely up to her...............

Finally, to the signs/elements: Fire Fixed is dominant with a shot of air: this indicates a will-person, an initiator.

One of Sherlock Holmes more famous observations was the dog that didn't bark. Are we missing, and this isn't major, but it is significant, something similar?

Tom

Greetings Forum Members,

Great site. I am very appreciative of Tom, Deb and others for hosting these mystery chart threads. I agree whole heartedly with Kirk?s statements about the benefits. It is a great way to develop skills and share information.

Some thoughts on the ascendant ruler: Saturn is the only visible planet (besides luminaries) on two counts. It is the only planet above the horizon and the remaining traditional planets are hidden under Sun beams. ALL traditional planets are in signs unfavorable to Saturn (except Saturn). The Moon in Aries is the sign of Saturn?s fall and the five Leo planets are in Saturn?s detriment. Very unusual conditions. Not good for Saturn?s important status as ascendant lord, already weakened by being peregrine, cadent and afflicted because it receives so little help from the other planets ? even the opposite of help.

Saturn also rules her 12th house. This fact sent me trolling through Lilly?s CA chapter on the 12th house to see what sort of enemies or opponents she might or might not have to deal with and if she could prevail over them or not. I found strong testimony for imprisonment or captivity, more so than for overcoming adversaries. Lilly says,

Either of the lights afflicted by the conjunction, square or opposition of Saturn or Mars in angles, and posited in any of the houses of the malevolents, viz. in Aries, Capricorn, Scorpio, or Aquarius and the Infortune oppressing the Sun or Moon in Leo or Cancer, it portends Imprisonment (CA, p.642).

Mars being in the seventh or twelfth, in Aries, Taurus, Scorpio or Capricorn, Aquarius, Leo, Cancer, and then afflicting by himself one of the Lights; or if he be in any of those Signs, and Saturn afflict the Sun or Moon with partile or platic aspect, it denotes the same (CA, p.642).

If I am understanding Lilly?s guidelines correctly then the Mystery Woman?s chart has imprisonment/captivity in triplicate! Lilly does not say whether the fortunes could offer any reprieve. In her case the fortunes are not strong under Sun beams, afflicted by both malefics and cadent.

There was one match for overcoming adversaries,

The Luminaries, especially that of the time (viz. in a diurnal Birth the Sun, in a nocturnal, the Moon) if they be constituted in the essential dignity of Mars (CA, 641).

Her Moon in Aries is a match. However this rule appears separate from (and much weaker testimony than) the multiple imprisonment indications.

Christina

Hi Steven,

As just a little note, I don't understand why these are called Alchabitius cusps since it is clear these were used before Alchabitius came along

Oh it's probably for the same reason we call them Porphry cusps when he didn't invent them, and Placidus cusps were used before Placidus. The only one I'm certain is named after its original inventor is Koch.

Thanks for your answers. It's much more clear now.

Tom

Jupiter is not joined to another until after the Sun passes Saturn.

But Jupiter isn?t applying to Saturn, and so Jupiter is the bearer of the moon?s disposition to saturn ? Or am I greatly mistaken ?
Yuzuru

But Jupiter isn?t applying to Saturn,

The way I'm reading it Jupiter at 11 Leo is applying to square Saturn at 14 Scorpio, but the Sun squares Saturn first.

Tom

I'm sitting here in such an awe about the delineations and especially about Steve's contribution, that I'm simply speechless. I'm learning so much that my ears are humming. Thank you Steve, and thank you Tom for starting these mystery chart threads. *making waves*

Hello Tom,

Lilly is da man.

So he is. Thank you kindly for the clue. She done somebody wrong then? For sure. But who?

The question that occurs to me when I see Saturn in a position as it is in this chart, is this: Does that Saturn profoundly affect everything or nearly everything in that stellium and how, specifically?

Most likely she wronged someone represented within the stellium. Steven has delineated that most expertly, plus I see you have posted the answer in another thread. I will be hopping over there to check it out retroactively. To answer your question, in astrological theory, I think should be yes. In practice? Well, I?ll have to see.

Hi Steven,

I am grateful for your encouragement - and happy someone else saw the rock (foundation you said) in this chart that I did, despite it being somewhat obscured amidst all those pretty (and distracting) trines. Its funny how the luminaries brightened by the fortunes can, at first, ?outshine? the dark in a chart. At least, that was my experience when I first looked at it.

Since one of the purposes of these mystery threads is to share delineation techniques I will expand a bit on mine. Ever since one of my children was born with Aquarius rising with Lords 1 and 12 both Saturn, I set my sights on learning how to tell the good guy Lord 1 Saturns from the enemies and vice versa. Therefore, whenever I see an Aquarius rising chart (such as this mystery chart) I focus almost immediately on the 12th. Out of this habit arose a technique that I apply to all charts straight off, as follows:

I look to see if the malefics afflict the angles AND all four Lords of the angles are corrupted. If so, I feel 99% certain it is a really bad person. Then I check the 12th for enemies, win, lose, incarceration possibilities. The luminaries and their dispositors weigh in as well. Although I am not sure if under these conditions good luminaries and their dispositors could pull it out (still researching but so far, not). Every time I have found this condition it has been the chart of a murderer (still researching, too timid to call it outright across the board without checking a few hundred more charts! Such is the moral dilemma astrology faces).

Mystery woman?s chart meets this condition (both malefics afflicting angles and all four angle Lords corrupted). But even if she did not, and even if she did not have the other unusual Saturn conditions noted, the fact that she has Aquarius rising means I would have checked the 12th thoroughly right away. Nothing fancy, just maternal instinct - necessity is the mother of invention ? my Aquarius rising kid is an Aries, phew.

I have a question. Do you (or does any forum member) know of an astrological reference for this? I came to my theory piecemeal and from researching charts but have never been able to find a clear and specific reference that says 'malefics afflicting angles and all four angle Lords corrupted simultaneously means such and such'. I would be interested in any references people know of, even if they are not an exact match.

Very illuminating thread.

Christina

Hi Christina:

I have a question. Do you (or does any forum member) know of an astrological reference for this?

I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule set down by anyone, but what you've noticed is certainly consistent with traditional practice. If there were such a rule, I'd bet that it would take less than what you outlined. All four lords corrupt plus affliction from the malefics can't be too common, but I suppose neither are truly evil people.

I've been studying Morin's work on "revolutions." i.e. return charts, and he freely uses malefics as indicating bad things regardless of dignity. The same is true for the benefics and "good" things.

I like this comment:

Hi Steven,

I am grateful for your encouragement - and happy someone else saw the rock (foundation you said) in this chart that I did,

"Rock" and "Foundation" are such good Saturn words. Thanks for your contribution.

Tom