Skyscript Astrology Forum

Tom thanks
In my opinion, the presence, of ASC and MC in mutable signs, generates 3 currents:
1. - Jupiter/Neptune
2. ? Mercury (Capricorn), Saturn (Scorpio), Sun (Capricorn).
3.- Pluto Semisquare ASC and Nodo South.

1. - Jupiter/Neptune=Square to MC =Experience gain with magic or mysticism. Personal/Profesional Scandals. Her legal and moral system are based upon favors and payoff. Errors in hiding that requires comprensive analysis. Her dreams influence society.
Neptuno Semisquare Saturn (both in aspect to MC), persons involved in questionable practice

2. - Mercury runs of the MC in Capricorn and Saturn in Scorpio, Mars in Pound with Venus in Scorpio in House XII, returns to us to Neptunian the chart. Saturn in semisquare to Neptune, generates confusion of objectives, disorder in the porosities, irresponsibility, negligence, indefinicion in the labor objective, evasion deception, frustration

Somebody that tries to help to other with something creative or artistic, mystic or esoteric.

3.- Old connections, and changes thru connections. Obsession for using others for her own purposes. She have ability to focus on how groups can help her.
Finally, is posibleher use or abuse of poisonous substances, and the sexual or carnal opportunities you seek from others.

For the future:
She stay live a big chance in your life, job and profesion, is posible she move a other country, this years, but it needs to have much taken care of with accidents.
Mario

Type of partner in marriage is represented by the first applying aspect the sun makes to another planet.

So the first aspect the Sun makes is to Mercury, indicating an intelligent partner. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that the planet is retrograde. I'd hope it wouldnt make the husband a liar, or con-artist.

Mars is also important in a woman's chart with regard to marriage and the type of man a woman likes. It is in Libra, so she is excited by charming sweet-talkers. Mars squares Jupiter, so maybe there is attraction to guys who talk big, but can't quite deliver. I'd probably tell her to watch out for con-artists. I don't know why, I just get the feeling. I'll admit this is more intuitive than technical.

I'll also note that she has Venus conj. Moon, which I've found to be a very lovely aspect, but for fun I'll dig up what good ole' Maternus has to say about it, because his is the ony ancient astrology book I own.

...Well, I can't find my Maternus book. So this will have to wait for another day. This is probably a good time to take up horary. Where is my Maternus book?

I can't wait for the bio!

Hi Tom,

I?m pleased to hear that I hit the mark with the victim ? but I feel pity for the mystery woman.

Sorry moderns, I cannot resist. Commenting on Pluto?s recent demotion and the subsequent discovery of something or other bigger than Pluto but outside Pluto?s orbit:

OK, agreed, Pluto is but a piece of rubble. It?s smaller than our Moon, far away and has a weird orbit. It?s definitely not a planet and has never been one. But having worked with it for many year and being sentimental sometimes, I still include it in my astrological work, as an ?Extra Point?. Which means as a consequence that I have to include Eris, Quaoar, Orcus etc. as well. But that?s research.
I must admit though that some events in my own and other peoples?s biography can be very nicely explained with Primary Direction to Pluto ? and only with them.

She did last year, but is there any way (and I don?t know that there is) to determine how she changed things? Or how to change things? The mention of a healing profession is one way.

Last year, Jupiter travelled across the conjunction with natal Saturn 3 times. When I read a chart and see this, I usually ask if the person has gone through a process of maturity, becoming more aware of their own abilities and their personality.
For the non-traditionalists, Uranus transited the square to its natal position, which supports the change necessary to mature.
On top of that, secondary progressed Venus conjoined natal Jupiter in September ? quite a pleasant period.

I didn?t check, but when you refer to progressed Mercury conjunct the Sun are you referring to an exact conjunction? If so Mercury would be cazimi and we could do something positive with this. If not, i.e. you mean ?within orb? the Mercury is combust ? not good.

The conjunction of secondary progressed Mercury with the Sun becomes exact end of October, 2007. Mercury?s latitude will be 1?06? north. So the Sun doesn?t cover it (it?s in superior conjunction) with it?s radius of 0?15?. I understand Cazimi as an occultation of Mercury (superior conjunction) or a Mercury Transit, or a ?Solar Mercury Eclipse? in its Inferior Conjunction.
This aspect is not in Cazimi by this definition.

There are some important Primary Directions (key of Ptolemy) now and within the next few months, assuming the birth time is correct to the minute.

ASC conj Sun in July 2007
ASC conj Mercury in January 2008
MC conj Mars in February 2008

ASC conjunct FACIES in December 2007

I think this ?package? will trigger important personality traits to show up, especially the Victim Syndrome. Good observation of events, feelings and dreams will reveal a lot.

Best regards
Ren?

I still include it [Pluto] in my astrological work, as an ?Extra Point?. Which means as a consequence that I have to include Eris, Quaoar, Orcus etc. as well. But that?s research.

I must admit though that some events in my own and other peoples?s biography can be very nicely explained with Primary Direction to Pluto ? and only with them.

I don't want to turn the mystery thread into a pro or con Pluto thread. There is nothing new either one of us could contribute to the argument. I was only having a little fun with my quote, and didn't expect a response.

I've heard all the Pluto claims before, and my counter argument is this: While other astrologers tell me that there are things that are only explained by Pluto in this or that chart, I gave up on modern astrology precisely because I could find nothing of value in Pluto in my studies. The straw that broke the camel's back occurred in a course I was taking and I was asked to delineate Pluto in my own chart using natal position, transits, and solar arc directions. For Pluto transits and solar arcs are often the same thing.

Given the position of Pluto at my birth I've lived long enough to see the little bugger cross my ASC, my IC, square and trine itself and it is currently on natal Jupiter. I've had Uranus conjunct it, square it and oppose it. Neptune has squared, trined and opposed it, and you know what? Nothing ever happened. No transformation, no rising from the dead, no power surges, no epiphanies, no near death or near life experiences internal, external, or extra terrestrial. And I noted this years before Pluto's initial demotion. The only event in my life that I can recall, that coincided with a Pluto transit in my life was (I think) when Pluto crossed my ASC. My parents bought a house in another town and I was forced to move with them as I was only 8 years old.

Upon realizing that this most powerful of planets was anything but, and having realized that Uranus and Neptune are often similar shams. I bagged modern astrology for good.

But this is a good place to gently reiterate a policy that has nothing to do with you, Rene, or anything you wrote. It is only a reminder for all who read this timeless prose. I don't mind people using outer planets in delineation on this forum, but I'm not crazy about referring to them as sign rulers here. This is, after all, a traditional forum. That belongs in other areas of Skyscript, along with asteroids and other modern bodies and techniques.

The conjunction of secondary progressed Mercury with the Sun becomes exact end of October, 2007. Mercury?s latitude will be 1?06? north. So the Sun doesn?t cover it (it?s in superior conjunction) with it?s radius of 0?15?. I understand Cazimi as an occultation of Mercury (superior conjunction) or a Mercury Transit, or a ?Solar Mercury Eclipse? in its Inferior Conjunction. This aspect is not in Cazimi by this definition.

That's an interesting point, and more and more I'm learning that the actual position of the planets, as opposed to celestial longitude by itself, is important. One would think that with computers we would all spend more time exploring, declination, latitude, right ascension, etc and see how this impacts a chart. But strictly speaking, cazimi is measured in celestial longitude only, so I would work with Mercury while it is a good time to do so.

Also, I was recently told by someone whose knowledge and experience I respect, that ancient to older astrologers who used primary directions did not direct "in mundo." They only directed "in zodiac." Furthermore they did not use converse directions either. Morin references converse directions in his book on revolutions though. Contemporary authority on primary directions, Rumen Kolev claims directions in mundo are more powerful than those in zodiac, a least his studies indicate that.

I noticed the same primary directions you did. I tend to use Naibod, but that only postpones the "hit" a few months. I'm not persuaded that primaries can be used like transits for timing. After seeing the hits I ran solar returns, but can't find anything too exciting there, or I have not found anything yet. The same person told me he thinks the older astrologers used a primary direction hit for little more than a broad indication that a significant year was in the making. They would then use other techniques to narrow this down and make a prediction. So far in my limited work with primaries, that seems to make sense.

I'm working on an essay for the native and will "reveal" her in a day or so.

Tom

Hi Tom,

I'm working on an essay for the native and will "reveal" her in a day or so.

I'm looking forward to reading that.

Ren?

I like the beauty of this chart, the way it appears to the eye at first glance, and I have a feeling one could say the same of the young lady herself. Here's my best guess about what she's dealt with recently, or will be dealing with in future (I didn't look at transits at all).

The entire focus of this chart is on Rahu near the 7th house cusp - the whole focus of the young life is on marriage, not career. This one may manage to make a career out of her marriage somehow ( 7th and 10th house rulers linked to Mercury/Sun husband in 1st house of self). But it isn't going to be easy. There is going to be a lot of trouble through the girlfriends - girls set her up, she competes with girls for possible marriage partners (7th house ruler in the 1st - Robson), she's strongly competitive in the area of marriage partners (Jyestha ascendent, Vishaka Moon Jyotish archetypes or Cap Sun, Sco Moon western archetype), she loses out to betrayal in terms of marriage partners, too (Mercurial spouse material).

With Ketu so close to the Ascendent, there will be tragedy and victimization, but also a strong interest in alternative spirituality, and possibly in some forms of the occult - the spouse may share these interests as well. Jupiter in Sag is highly lazy - she's going to have to overcome that if she wants to reach her full potential. She won't be suited to the discipline of a 9-to-5 job, but with some investment from the husband, she might do very well in a business from home (4th house cusp linked to 1st house).

Hello All,

Tom, great idea to host a non-famous person mystery chart.

A strong LoA Jupiter in the 1st coupled (here by sign) with SN conjunct Asc is indicative of excess and indulgence (as well as victim which has already been mentioned by others). SN adds a somewhat blind compulsiveness unless/until the native consciously gets a grip on themselves. In her case, Jupiter is further animated by the Mars sextile from 11th (friends and fun).

Jupiter?s partile trine to the 5th cusp, along with the Mars, Saturn, Venus, Moon placements suggest that sex also had a hand in her troubles (refer Kim Farnell article ?Sex and Great Lovers? on this site http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html )

The native suffers from lack of a healthy support system (more likely the opposite, a negative support system) and there is much trouble from friends and others: both malefics peregrine in 11th; L7 is RX and combust in 1st although not peregrine. In addition, parental, sibling/neighbor and grandparent indicators seem more distressful than helpful.

The chart is extreme in that, with the exception of Jupiter, all the planets are in signs of malefics, either in a malefic?s domicile or malefic?s exaltation (eg, Mars detrimented in Libra, sign of Saturn?s exalt). Jupiter in its own benefic sign of Sagittarius is disturbed to a certain extent by the malefic South Node?s presence in the sign conj Ascendant, plus both Jupiter and SN are in the bestial half of Sag.

The only planet in a human sign is Mars, unfortunately a malefic, detrimented in Libra, in the burning way and rules the 12th and 5th (houses of indulgences). Interesting, Mars is conjunct lovely Spica. Robson?s suggestions for Mars conj Spica are mixed, ?violent in dispute, rigid and nearly or quite a fool? or ?popular, social success, may have good judgement? (describes some of her 11th house associations, friends, acquaintances). Mars is unafflicted and sextile Jupiter so it could be turned to the positive.

For a quick look at some of the overall basics, I refer to Lilly?s ?Of the general Fortune or Misery of the Native? (CA, p. 551). A difficult life is indicated when (note: what follows is Lilly's entire paragraph with no omissions. I broke it up in quotes because it seemed easier to make comparisons to the mystery chart)

The two lights peregrine and their Dispositor in his Fall, detriment or in pitiful places?

Relevant: Her Sun and Moon are peregrine and their dispositor?s are malefics. Moon?s dispositor Mars is in detriment, Sun?s dispositor Saturn is neither but is peregrine.

?Jupiter and Venus weak and peregrine or unfortunate?

Relevant but mixed: Jupiter is strong by sign and house, somewhat weakened by malefic SN. It is relevant to Venus detrimented in Scorpio and in 12th with no way out except mutual reception with a detrimented Mars.

?Saturn and Mars in the same quarter of Heaven: when that Saturn, Mars, SN and Mercury are principal significators of happiness?

Relevant and mixed ?: Saturn and Mars are both in 11th. Does anyone know what Lilly means by ?principal significators of happiness?? I suspect it has to do with the 1st and 11th, at the least. If so, SN conj Asc and Mercury in 1st RX combust is relevant, however, L1 Jupiter and L11 Venus are benefics therefore mixed.

?or all the planets slow in motion?

Not relevant: planet speeds are mixed although most are average to slow.

?the Native may expect many calamities, and much misery for the most part of his life; from whence it shall proceed, expect from the places of Heaven the Infortunes are in; the time when, from direction of the Significators to their aspects or Bodies.

Overall, very difficult.

Tom and Rene mentioned job possibilities such as a healing profession or helping others, respectively. I was thinking along those lines also, for a few reasons. Moon is L8 and her last aspect was to Saturn and next aspect is to Venus (she is going from a malefic towards a benefic). Venus rules 6th house of work, is in 12th in Scorpio and easily describes a nurse (or similar work). Moon-Venus sextile MC.

In addition, L10 (Mercury) and L9 (Sun) are conjunct in 1st house blending 9th significations with her career and self. The 9th encompasses helping others through its associations with teaching, religion or writing - and the law (in terms of what is fair). Sun-Mercury are facilitated by a sextile from Saturn in a good house with reception, and Saturn is L2 for income earning. Saturn and Mars in 11th can drain and dissipate finances, so she would have to learn to hold onto her resources, building in a slow, steady, stable manner.

Christina