Hi all,

What if we used the 5th house -- a bracelet IS a piece of jewelry and (I'm guessing) given to Pete by someone "special", i.e, a romantic interest.

Then Venus becomes sig of bracelet and she applies to the square of L.1. Venus's position in the 8th and Jupiter's in the 12th is descriptive of how upset Pete felt about losing it. Also Mars is L.11 and so signifies Pete's friend, in the 5th house of the bracelet and he had it safe and sound ... Mars is well received by the bracelet being in Venus's sign, triplicity and term.

Would this be a kosher approach do you think?

Tara

Pete:

True, but is reception to a very weak significator enough to give that significator the energy to find its way home? Lilly says not. (C.A. 299. #18 )

Saturn was not working as effectively.

-Your friend picks it up in a pub and fails to deliver you.

-He does not respond unless and untill you call him.

Your friend must have been well aware that bracelet in most of the cases (even in our part of the world) holds a sentimental value.

The bracelet was not found by your searching ( i dont count call to a friend as a search). It might explain the reason why significators were not aspecting L1. L2 aspects Ascendant and POF. And it was delivered to you at home.

But is Saturn really very weak? It's a diurnal planet in a diurnal chart, placed with the Sun diurnally above the earth, and is in a diurnal sign.

In other words, Saturn is perfectly in sect, or to use the correct term, "hayz". Robert Hand, in his excellent booklet on planetary sect, "Night & Day", tells us that Renaissance authors such as Gauricus considered hayz to be a powerful accidental dignity, yet somehow more modern horary practice hardly acknowledges planetary sect at all. I've always found this to be a curious omission and in my work I consider hayz to be at least as favourable as appropriate orientality or occidentality.
The main reason I didn't use the Saturn trine to the P.O.F. was because I believed that Saturn's position in detriment detracted sufficiently from it being in hayz, but hey, maybe it didn't after all and Saturn had enough accidental dignity through being completely in sect to return the bracelet to my wrist.
Excellent observation Kirk. Thanks!

cheers,
Pete

Tara asked:

Would this be a kosher approach do you think?

Well it certainly has some merit. You're right, Venus qualifies as a sig for the bracelet via two points: first as generic ruler of jewellery and second as the accidental ruler of the 5th house, which shows items used for personal adornment. Venus is in the 8th, showing at one level that the bracelet is in the hands of another (although this position doesn't clue us into "friend"). Lord of the 11th in the 5th wouldn't immediately switch on a light-bulb in my head saying "my friend has the bracelet!", whereas lord of the 5th in the 11th would. It's a foggy distinction but an important one I think.
Finally, Venus doesn't apply to the square of Jupiter. She goes retro at around 2 Virgo and refranes from the aspect.

Thanks for your input Tara!
Cheers,
Pete

Venus doesn't apply to the square of Jupiter. She goes retro at around 2 Virgo and refranes from the aspect.

Doh! That blows my theory out of the water.

So we are left with a pretty weak case for the return of the bracelet and yet there it is, back on your wrist.

Guess that POF on ASC trine L.2 did the trick, but who would have predicted it?

Tara

OK, here's my take on this. Ruler of the 11th, your friend, Mars, comes to a square to Saturn, ruler of your 2nd, your possession, in the 5th, place of fun and enjoyment, the pub. Your friend makes contact with your possession in the pub. Saturn goes on to trine the POF conjunct your ascendant. Your posession comes back to you. Venus, secondary significator of your bracelet goes retro, so would that not indicate it's coming back to you? There is no contact between you and Saturn, but you never found the bracelet, your friend did. However, I don't see any contact between you and your friend, which is what puzzles me...

There has been quite some discussion over the debility of Saturn in this chart, and is it strong enough to bring it back home. To this effect, I would point out a horary that I did about a year ago, in which I asked the question "What will be result of this buyout?" My company had been bought out and I was afraid I would lose my job.


The chart showed a very easy transition from one job to another, and Pete, you yourself said:

Pete:

I think we should also take note of the Moon's final aspect, which is a trine to the P.O.F. in the 2nd house. Granted, the lord of the P.O.F. is in detriment, combust and in 8th, but can we ignore the fact that the Moon in fact makes a trine to the P.O.F. itself?

In fact, what happened was that I landed a job with another company, and
their offer was quite phenomenal from a monetary perspective. So, as you can see, regardless of the "state" of the POF, the Moon's trine to it delivered the "goods"!

Now back to the bracelet...

Well it wasn't my mother, let me put it that way

So - Sir Peter - while you were out bar-hopping, drinking up a storm with your rowdy friends, and let the bracelet carelessly fall off your wrist - and she sat alone, surrounded by 4 gray walls waiting on the phone for your call, fighting back the tears because she knows you're out with your friends, no doubt in the companionship of other attractive women that frequent those pubs - so tell me, did you tell her that you lost her bracelet? And THEN what happened???

So - Sir Peter - while you were out bar-hopping, drinking up a storm with your rowdy friends, and let the bracelet carelessly fall off your wrist - and she sat alone, surrounded by 4 gray walls waiting on the phone for your call, fighting back the tears because she knows you're out with your friends, no doubt in the companionship of other attractive women that frequent those pubs - so tell me, did you tell her that you lost her bracelet? And THEN what happened???

No I didn't. Are you nuts??

Pete