Hi Venussquare

I read somewhere, just can't remember where, that the ruler of the Ascendant in the 1st house means the querent is more concerned with themself and not thinking about the quesited. The same if the 7th ruler is in the 7th, the quesited is not thinking about the querent.

Hopefully, Deb or someone will clarify since I'm not sure if this is true and if there are other meanings for the Ascendant and 7th rulers being in their own house.

Hi Kerenhappuch

Wow, you must have been reading my mind, thanks for the information

Oh, wait. I didn't read Keren's post until I scrolled up. That is very interesting and really bodes much better in the long run, Keren. Not in terms of pursuing a relationship, but then again not all good "connections" necessarily lead to a long-term relationship. (If that makes any sense.)

Thanks for the information and the illustration!

In this particular horary chart, L1 is conjunct the Ascendant, hence making an opposition to the 7th house cusp. I am not aware that the querent is putting any pressure on the quesited but apparently that's how the quesited feels!!

The Sun and Venus form a conjunction along with Saturn. Is it correct to read this as: both parties are interested but both are restricted by outside authorities? Mercury, the ruler of the 7th house also conjoins the Sun, Venus and Saturn. There are no applying aspects between Mercury and L1.

Venussquare wrote:

The Sun and Venus form a conjunction along with Saturn. Is it correct to read this as: both parties are interested but both are restricted by outside authorities? Mercury, the ruler of the 7th house also conjoins the Sun, Venus and Saturn. There are no applying aspects between Mercury and L1.

Planets conjunct the Sun are combust which is one of the worst conditions a planet can find itself in. It suggests that the quesited (L.7) is overwhelmed in some way and unable to think clearly. Also having L.7 conjunct three planets suggests that the quesited is already juggling other relationship interests. That Venus particularly is likely to be another woman. Maybe this is the source of his confusion.

Having L.1 combust is one of the traditional considerations before judgment because the querent is unlikely to be governed by the astrologer's advice as he or she is not thinking clearly. I can attest to the validity of this consideration from experience.

Deb taught us that L.1 in 1 or L.7 in 7 means the querent or quesited, as the case may be, is more into themselves than the other person. If there is no applying aspect between L.1 and L.7 and there is no translation or collection of light to do the trick, then it doesn't look like the relationship will develop.

Tara

Thanks, Tara. That checks as well. All of it.

Just to confuse the issue.

I have found it much easier to resolve this issue by giving the ascendant lord and ascendant to the "Initiator" or the first mover. Relationship horaries have made much more sense to me.

If I am the initiator and 1st lord is in 7th then I am more keen.
If other party is the initiator and I am checking how this will pan out, I still find 1st lord in 7th(in other words- I commit heresy )


Pankaj

L1 in 1H and L7 in 7H could also be equated to a situation when the significator is in his/her own house. William Lilly writes about the situation when the planet is in his own sign/house (i am reproducing from memory)

A planet in his own house represents a person who is lord of his own house, estate and fortune. A person who does not need goods of this world (implying that he has sufficient goods of his own) and he is happy in his/her condition if and only if the significator is not impedited i.e

Retrograde
Combust
Having malevolent aspect (square--opposition or even conjoins) with the malevolent planets.
Slow in Speed
Cadent etc etc


So, if a planet is in happy condition he/she would not be bothered by other person desperation. If i remember correctly from the Art of Seduction etc

You can not seduce a person who is satisfied with his/her circumstances

Good way of putting it, Horatio! It is indeed difficult/impossible to seduce a person shown by a planet in their own sign, figuratively or literally! As I found with the chart I mentioned in my previous post!

Keren

It is indeed difficult/impossible to seduce a person shown by a planet in their own sign, figuratively or literally!

I'm wondering how this works if, say, like a question I just did ("Does he want to be with me?"), Saturn represents the querent, the Sun the quesited. Saturn is in detriment but receives the Sun by conjunction in the Sun's domicile.

Does combustion count in such questions, I wonder, since the quesited applies to the querent? Obviously, this is a 7th house question, the querent is besotted by the quesited; the quesited is in a MUCH stronger position, being in his own house, and having also apparently left some other woman behind! (Venus Rx)8) . I don't think the combustion would hold, since it is a significator; how else can one have 'yes' answers using the Sun, if the conjunction of the Sun with something combusts the other significator? And this being so, is the quesited up for being seduced, as Horatio puts it? Or is he the seducer (applying, domicile, own house?)?

GH

Seduction is a subtle art. Apart from its immediate connection to relationships, the term is broad and encompass much wider arena.

I had recently analysed a horary. The Querent significator Saturn was in 7H and under the Sun beams. Answer to her horary (Will i marry in comming 6 months) was in negative. But it gives rise to a question. If Sun is in Leo and the planet combust is also in Leo, would it matter if we say that Sun might not be that hostile, cause he receives the other planet in his house, or other way around that the Sun is more hostile cause his brilliance/heat is more evident being in his own domicile.

Gunhilde:-

I have been thinking on similar lines. If Sun is one of the significator and he conjoins the other significator, would it be Yes answer or a negative answer --combustion. I have searched many documents and few horaries. My experience (limited one) says that combustion is too strong a testimony againsnt the general well being of the Querent or Quesited. Like Saturn in detriment and also combust. I see past authors shouting loudly "too bad, unfortunate, too bad", and i have to agree with their findings. About your finding that since Saturn has left Venus Rx, it might denote that Querent had recently left some woman i refer to the following link, it gives impetus to read past authors.

http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.testi ... afore.html

IMHO, Sun in Leo, also has his waekest spot. Sun in Leo is too ego centric to note that some one might be flaterring him to gain some end.

Hi Horatio,

John Frawley has this to say about combustion:

If conjunction with the Sun would give a Yes to the question, combustion can be ignored: the poor Sun would never get conjuncted otherwise. The Horary Textbook p 60

But this is for planets applying to the Sun; what about if it's the Sun applying to the planet?

Hmmm.

GH