No need to be embarrassed, RC! I think it just shows a wee lack of faith in your own abilities, which I am sure are more than up to snuff. (And I do the same thing, btw, asking for confirmation from different angles. It never works! ).

The Moon sextiling Jupiter in this question most likely IS saying 'Everything will be okay'. Your last chart said you'd pass; maybe not with 100%, but enough to pass. And really, passing is good enough! Twenty years from now, no-one is going to care whether you got 100% on the multiple choice.

So relax, enjoy the sunshine, put down your worries! (Says the Sadge to the Capricorn...)

GH

Gunhilde wrote:
So relax, enjoy the sunshine, put down your worries! (Says the Sadge to the Capricorn...)

GH

Not an easy thing to do for a Capricorn.

RC

So even tho this intervening aspect is a good thing, is it technically considered a "prohibition" or does that term only apply to things that frustrate what you *want* to happen?

RC

I wouldn't consider the greater benefic, so dignified, to be anything BUT a helper, especially since everything else is either peregrine or in generally crappy condition. It's the best thing in any current chart, and your moon goes to it next. It is neither prohibiting nor frustrating. Just touching you with some magic sparkle.

GH

Hi RC,

Let's take a look shall we?

You're in a bad spot. Mercury VOC and USB in the 12H, has essential dignity, but can't express itself. And Mercury is the natural sig of tests and reports is in the 12H, I don't like that either. You have no say in this matter, you are not in a position to do anything effective right now. But Mercury does behold the house he rules, I think this is helpful. And the hour is Venus, so the chart is radical.

I don't like the fact that the Sun, which represents the preferment or accolade you desire, is over there in the 12H with you, separating from Mercury and applying to the South Node. It's 12H ruler too so that indicates that the Sun which you receive and really want potentially undermines you somehow.

Mercury is ill-disposed so we look to the Moon. If the Moon is events, which I belive it is, then her sign, house and ruler tells us the character of what's to come. She's in the 5H of contests and competitions so she's accurately reflecting the situation. She's ruled by a detrimented peregrine malefic in joy conjunct Regulus, making 'mischief' in the 12H of tribulations. I don't like that at all as a chacterization of what's to come. The interests of ugly Saturn will oppose those of the Moon if we look at all her aspects in Aquarius, that's terrible.

What's the Moon's last aspect? She's currently separating from being VOC, so nothing has happened in quite some time. We have to go all the way back to Capricorn to find an aspect her. She trined Mercury, but from a sign where she is peregrine and detrimented. If this represents the time you took the exam all those weeks ago, that's not a good indicator of an easy go of it. She was also ruled by that same malefic Saturn.

3H ruler Mars, the letter determining your results is a 9H cadent malefic with the tiniest bit of dignity. He's also in a fairly strong mutual reception with Saturn. That's not the good news we want to hear. Mars in Gemini is harsh words, sharp words, criticism, that's not a good indicator of the good news we want to hear about your exam.

Last, Venus is the ruler of the 9H of your skills, and thus your exam. That she is Rx, USB and peregrine that's not good either. This is about a re-dux of an exam, and the exam ruler is literally presenting the very symbol of redoing something.

I think you see where I'm going with this.

Jupiter is strong, this is the lawyer planet. In the 3H he means good news and protection but he's still cadent. As the ruler of the end of the matter, his aspects are important.

So let's turn to the aspects. Jupiter is square Mercury, from Mercury's detriment. Jupiter is frustration for Mercury at some point in the past.

Mercury separates square Mars with reception. Yet neither planet is in a good house which would enable them to have overcome the difficulty of the square. So the Mars report and its delay has been a real frustration for Mercury.

That Mars and Jupiter oppose each other isn't spectacular. Oppositions to Jupiter are often the signal of excess, overdoing it somehow. Something about Mars has gone too far, especially as the opposition was formed from Jupiter's sign of detriment.

Mars' harsh words are making a sextile to that Rx Venus=the opportunity to retake the test is already in orb in the chart.

Venus retrogrades back toward a trine with Jupiter's good news, but she never makes it=refranation. This might be good or bad for our cause, I'm unsure.

Then we turn to the Moon, who sextiles Jupiter and trines Mars. Then she goes on the opposition of Venus, the conjunction of Neptune and the opposition of Saturn.

Yes the Moon gets help from Jupiter, but afterwards the trine to a poorly dignified malefic means that she makes an easy aspect to whatever grating words Mars in Gemini will pass on to her. Acceptance of Mars' debility seems in order. In about 5 weeks.

Jupiter often represents an advisor, a mentor, perhaps RC will meet up with a former professor/lawyer type and will discuss the uncertainty he/she feels about the exam. And Jupiter will offer reassurance and some tactics about what to do in the case of failure. I say reassurance because the sextile is the aspect of communication and Jupiter is in the 3H. And something about the relationship of Mars to Jupiter is excessive.

And the Moon carries this reassurance up there with her to the trine of Mars, co-ruler of the bar exam 9H. Then she moves on to a Rx Venus, a mutual application in opposition in fixed signs I would add. I think a re-test is very likely. What makes me think negatively is that the Moon conjuncts Neptune at that time. Neptune is fantasy, a tantalizing mirage, and the Moon comes fact to face with this mirage, confronts it. That's not good for real world exam results. This mirage is disposited by that 12H Saturn too, so it undermines you.

Then at the end the Moon moves on to oppose Saturn in fixed signs, which any way you slice it is disappointment. She confronts Saturn directly across the sky.

We have mutable signs on the angles=unstable situation requiring adjustment. The Sun and Moon in the chart are separating from the inconjunct aspect with the Moon heading, way in the distance, to the opposition of the Sun. The inconjunct is the aspect of adjustment. things are out of joint and the aspects likely represent steps the querent may to take to fix things.

I'd be very happy to wrong and let's discuss where you believe I am incorrect, but I think a re-test is likely. Sorry.

1000Camels wrote:Hi RC,

I'd be very happy to wrong and let's discuss where you believe I am incorrect, but I think a re-test is likely. Sorry.

Hi 1000Camels:

I really appreciate the time and study you put into this.

Of course I hope you're wrong!

It will be interesting to see if you or Gunhilde was right.


RC

Hi 1000camels,

Some of what I think you may have overlooked in your analysis here were the following factors:

Which planet disposits all the other signficators?

Saturn is dispositor of Moon and receives Moon's aspect, thereby diminishing greatly any malefic influence to the moon he might have otherwise been disposed to generate. He welcomes her opposition by this reception of her.

Also important to be considered here is that Saturn is very weak here. It is combust, the Sun having just recently passed over him and just entered into Virgo. The fact that they are in the twelfth is not per se a horrible thing. The 12th house signifies the past and the unknown, the mysterious, what is hidden from view or knowledge. The Sun, which just passed over Saturn is the dispositor of not only Saturn but Venus as well.
And who is then the final dispositor or them all? Mercury, ruler of Querent, who is stuck waiting in the wings in the dark and unknowing 12th but which is close to the ascendant (only 7') and will soon pass over ascendant and become not only essentially dignified and exaulted by sign as it is, but also dignified by being entering her own house.

Also, important is to take the nature of the aspects and relate that to the question. The Question regarded a RE-do of an exam. So Venus accurately describes the question by being retrograde. That is not an automatic re-do. The placement and condition of the planets must describe the question under consideration and Venus here does that. The question here is, will the querent actually come face to face with this retrograde condition? Will this even come about?

So what are the aspects to Venus by Mercury or the moon here? Mercury is VOC in that she is not making any applying aspects (other than the conjunction of the ASC). Are any of the other aspects bringing querent face to face with this retrograde type event? If Moon had been conjoining Venus or in trine or even square, then perhaps the querent would be re-taking it. But remember, what is the nature of an oppositon aspect? Two opposing forces unwilling to come together to agree... right? Is the moon agreeing here to come together with this re-do of Venus by Opposing her? Also of note here, is that by the time Venus turns direct to pass over Saturn again, Saturn has will have already left the fixed sign of Leo and will be in Virgo, again, disposited by Mercury.

RC

Hi, RC

I hope what I'm adding here will help to clarify (and halfway, that means, heaven forbid that I confuse you more)!

This whole concept was a struggle for me when I was first learning horary.

In order for the answer to your question to be a "yes", you want an aspect between your significators. This rarely happens. Then you begin to eliminate all the other ways you can get a "yes" answer from your chart.

Translation of light is the next way to check for. I agree with other posters that the Moon is central to the matter of translation of light. She moves much more rapidly than any other planet, of course. In a space of one or two days, she initiates more aspects than any other planet as a result of moving through her current sign.

So we need to carefully examine the upcoming aspects of the Moon. Here is what I do, practically speaking. To focus my mind, I list all the planets (I only use the five visible planets and two luminaries, and I have been very happy with the accuracy of the results of these predictions). I list them from lowest degrees to highest, like this:

0
4
11
11
15
16
19

Then I add the planets, like so:

Saturn 0
Mercury 4
Moon 11
Jupiter 11
Sun 15
Venus 16
Mars 19

Now I put in the signs:

Saturn 0 Virgo
Mercury 4 Libra
Moon 11 Leo
Jupiter 11 Sagittarius
Sun 15 Virgo
Venus 16 Leo
Mars 19 Gemini

Finally, aspects to the Moon

Saturn 0 Virgo No aspect
Mercury 4 Libra Sextile
Moon 11 Leo
Jupiter 11 Sagittarius Trine
Sun 15 Virgo No aspect
Venus 16 Leo Rx Conjunction
Mars 19 Gemini No Aspect

Then I draw a line under the Moon. All the planets above the line are separating aspects; all those below the line are applying aspects, in the general order in which the Moon will perfect an aspect to each of them.
I still consult an ephemeris to make sure I did not miss a direct planet going retrograde or a retrograde planet going direct. Sometimes Mercury shocks me by slowing down or speeding up or changing signs before the Moon gets there, but this list gives a general idea.

This helps me concentrate more than looking at a chart on a computer screen. The same list can be used to look for collection of light as well; I will have to explain in more depth another time! Being called away,

Warm regards,

Spirlhelix

Hi Again, RC

Sorry I did not use the data for your chart, but I substituted yesterday's list of aspects so you can try the technique described here with your own chart data, if you care to.

Translation of Light

So, if you look at the list of aspects you have developed, it looks like this:

Saturn 0 Virgo No aspect
Mercury 4 Libra Sextile
Moon 11 Leo
Jupiter 11 Sagittarius Trine
Sun 15 Virgo No aspect
Venus 16 Leo Rx Conjunction
Mars 19 Gemini No Aspect

To examine the planets for translation of light, we look first at the Moon.

For the Moon to translate light we want:
1) One of the significators to be above the Moon, and the other to be below the Moon on our list.
2) We want both significators to aspect the Moon, within orb.
3) And we want The Moon to aspect no other planets before she aspects our second significator.

This third condition (called prohibition) is why I decided to totally give up the use of outer planets in horary astrology. There are too many potential instances where the flow of aspects would interrupted by the outer planets. It would affect the accuracy of our predictions. Using the outer planets, a "yes" chart might easily become a "no", or vice versa. And we should have used a question where it's one or the other; if "yes" is the correct judgement, then "no" is incorrect.

If there is no translation of light by the Moon, we start thinking about the relative speed of the planets. For this part of the analysis, you can cover up the aspects you listed for the Moon above, erase them , or just ignore them. For translation of light by other planets, we need to:

1) Find a planet that is faster than both of our significators
2) Make sure that planet is listed between our two significators on the list
3) Make sure that planet aspects both of our significators within orb
4) Make sure that planet does not aspect any other planet before it aspects our second significator on the list.


Saturn 0 Virgo
Mercury 4 Libra
Moon 11 Leo
Jupiter 11 Sagittarius
Sun 15 Virgo
Venus 16 Leo Rx
Mars 19 Gemini

If Saturn and Mars are our significators, let's see if there are any planets translating light between them. Why would this be necessary, since Saturn
and Mars are both in common signs? we might expect them to square one another at some point. Two things prevent such an aspect from perfecting:
Saturn, the planet at lower degrees, is the slowest planet. Mars moves faster; unless he retrogrades, he is leaving Saturn in the dust and will presently move into a new sign, while Saturn will stay where he is for a long time. The second problem: the two planets are not currently within orb of a square. Because of the speed of the planets in question, assuming Mars remains direct, they never will be square in their current signs.

Next, we need to eliminate the possibility that there is some other planet that will translate light between them. We will look at all the planets between Saturn and Mars on our list.

First, the Moon. In her current sign, she aspects Mars, but not Saturn. No good.

Next, Mercury. No aspect between Mercury and Saturn. No good.

Venus? She aspects neither Mars nor Saturn. No good.

Sun? Out of orb with Saturn. No good.

What about Jupiter? Jupiter is faster than Saturn and slower than Mars, so he does not meet our conditions for translation of light. The aspects between Jupiter and Saturn (just within orb), and Jupiter and Mars are therefore prohibiting the translation of light in this instance. Jupiter will never catch up with Mars in their current signs (unless Mars goes retrograde very soon). Jupiter will stay near the middle of the sign he is in, moving slowly, while Mars will march steadily into a new sign. Juipter will block Mars from his intended action in this chart.

So at this point, we check the ephemeris to make sure that Mars will not go retrograde soon. If not, we have eliminated all possibility of a positive answer to this question as a result of translation of light.

Note: if we have translation of light, we still do not have a certain "yes" to our question. We will still want to check a few more things like reception and essential dignity to make sure the aspect indicates a postive answer. But there is no need to go into all of that just now.

Collection of Light

I have to run again. Back with more later!

Regards,

Spirlhelix

spirlhelix wrote:Hi Again, RC

Collection of Light

I have to run again. Back with more later!

Regards,

Spirlhelix

Great! Thanks a lot.

RC

Hi, RC

Collection of Light

Collection of light is similar in effect to Translation of Light, except we look for heavier planets instead of lighter planets to do the collecting.

Here is an invented list of planets (in case you notice the signs and planets look "funny", yes, I invented them for the sake of discussion):

Sun 0 Gemini
Venus 1 Leo
Jupiter 5 Sagittarius
Mars 10 Aries
Saturn 12 Cancer
Moon 12 Gemini
Mercury 29 Gemini

Our significators are Sun and Venus. There is no aspect between them. There are no planets between them, so translation of light is out. Let's try for collection of light.

In collection of light, there will be two aspects that "link" our significators to a third, heavier (slower than both significators) planet. No perfect aspects to other planets can occur before aspects from both the significators have perfected.

Look down the list.

Can you find any planets which both Sun and Venus are applying to? A separating aspect can count too, as long the significator higher on the list is applying to an aspect with the collecting planet, while the other planet is separating from an aspect to the collecting planet. There must be no other planets which perfect an aspect with your significators or your collecting planet before the second aspect perfects.

So we want:

1) One significator above the collecting planet on the list.
2) The other significator either below or above the collecting planet on the list.
3) Each aspect to be within orb.
4) No other planets which will soon pefect an aspect to any of the three (2 significators and the collecting planet) listed between the two significators and the collecting planet.

Finally, in examining a real chart, we would want to consult an ephemeris or an aspectarian to make sure the aspects perfect with the timing we expect.

And is there collection of light in the example above? What do you think?

If you find an example of collection, you still have some work left to do to make sure of a "yes" answer to the question. You will still need to look at essential dignity and reception.

Just one more step in a process of elimination! Smile.

Regards,

Spirlhelix

Thank you .

I will print out all this & review to see what might I might have missed in my last horary example discussed.

I think the thing that was confusing me on this question was the fact that I was dealing with an opposition where both opposing planets were retrograde. One wasn't a significator but I just wanted to know how this would work if it had been a significator.

RC