Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hi Andrew,

There are many rules for cancellation of debility and not all equally strong.

http://www.vedicastrology.com/articles/ ... Bhanga.htm

the exalted planet will have to be angular- see section I,rule 2 .

Section I.

1) Lord of the sign occupied by a debilitated planet, placed in a Kendra (angle) from the Lagna or the Moon.
2) The planet which gets exalted in the sign where a planet is debilitated is in a Kendra from the Lagna or the Moon.
3) The lord of the exaltation sign of the debilitated planet is posited in a Kendra from the Lagna or the Moon.
4) A neecha planet exalted in the Navamsa.

The strongest ones are the angular from ascendant and those mentioned in Section I or rule 4 relating to Navamsa(D 9 or 9th harmonic)

Edit:

probably being strong in D 9(own sign) will save the Exalted retrograde planet whereas the planet in fall will have to look for more than one factor which cancel debility .

Add:
Roman Polanski
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Polanski,_Roman

Tropical: Venus in fall ,Mercury in an angle,jupiter lord of venus' exaltation sign conj jupiter

Sidereal Vedic: Venus fall,Jupiter lord of venus' exaltation sign in an angle.

Venus gets cancellation of debility- what an artist, what a mess

PD

Hi Andrew,

Regarding deception :

Say you have a horary with Aquarius rising. Saturn lord 1 is in the 7th in Virgo making a partill trine (3 minutes of arc separating) to Jupiter (stationary direct) lord 11th and 2nd in Capricorn (its fall) in the 12th. Which planet is "deceptive", who abhors whome here and what kind of a relationship between the planets does this situation describe?

Thanks.

Excellent question!

This combination does not involve only a 'deception' but also two planets that are natural enemies. Jupiter is in the sign of Saturn, but this is additionally the sign of his fall. Saturn is in the detriment of Jupiter. On top of this, you have thrown in a trine...

Jupiter is in a sad state, because not only is it debilitated in Capricorn, the ruler of that sign is negotiating with the enemy. So Jup. is just about as far away from safe home as he can get. How could the trine to Saturn be anything but a slight and merely polite applaus? How can the business of Jupiter even hope to be carried out along terms that could please him? The hopes of Jupiter must surely be deceived and fall in ice? Here is Jovial Jupiter in the contractive Capricorn, disposed by Saturn in the nit-picking Virgo... (Sorry about that, but it felt good to say it.)

Everything has to be on the terms of Saturn. It's like saying 'OK, we do it your way - but you're killing me..." Saturn is negotiating with someone else. Jupiter is betrayed. Jupiter is like a prisoner.

Saturn would benefit by the disposition of Jupiter if the latter was essentially dignified. The presence of Jupiter is not as damaging as in the case of an infortune. Lilly/Bonatus says that the planets are stressed when they are the dispositors of infortunes, i.e. Mars and Saturn. Contrary, the planets are more pleased when their signs are visited by fortunes. But how could Jupiter in Saturn's house be much better for Saturn when they are so contrary in nature? Saturn will hardly look forward to coming home and tidying up after the party and covering the bills. This is the planet in it's fall. Jupiter doesn't belong there.

Any evil indicated by Saturn in the sign of Virgo is migrated by the trine to Jupiter, but Jupiter is already at its knees and the benefit doesn't really translate. Nothing is really granted except in halfs. Jupiter in trine to his dispositor is an OK, but Jupiter is still deceived and left in the blind dark.

What a muddle, do I get paid?

Thank you Andrew !

If I understand this correctly, Saturn harms Jupiter in this scenario, but Jupiter cannot harm Saturn, although it is positioned in its 12th house of hidden enemies. Jupiter is a benefic, it is disposited by Saturn and it forms a trine with its dispositor.

On the other hand, Jupiter would be reluctant to help Saturn in his conflict with Sun l7, Saturn's open enemy (in Virgo too), because Jupiter is weak, and it might be against his own agenda, nature and best interests?

So, Jupiter could become the victim of this Saturn/Sun conflict , being damaged by both sides which it abhors ?

What a muddle, do I get paid?

The horary is of a lawsuit, which indeed looks like a muddle. Jupiter is a potential witness who could help Saturn win, but would only agree to do so "anonymously".

What are the skyscript forum formal terms of payment? (asks Saturn the nitpicker) .

As agreed between vendor and client, minus 5% commission for the web mistress.

Aquastella wrote:The horary is of a lawsuit, which indeed looks like a muddle. Jupiter is a potential witness who could help Saturn win, but would only agree to do so "anonymously".

Great case! Jupiter may be able to help Saturn, but gets nothing from it and will the witness be considered credible?

Deb wrote:As agreed between vendor and client, minus 5% commission for the web mistress.

Woops!

Andrew:

Jupiter may be able to help Saturn, but gets nothing from it and will the witness be considered credible?

This is an interesting situation. Jupiter the witness can benefit from Saturn's "victory", as they were both in the same boat, having been harmed by Sun , the "enemy". Nevertheless , Mr. Jupiter seems like he does not want to get involved in this lawsuit, but still wants Saturn to win, for his own personal reasons (the side-effects). So he wispers some vital information in Saturn's ear but will not testify in public. Saturn , in Jupiter's sign of detriment, is not at all sure he can trust the "vital information" coming from Jupiter, knowing about his "secret agenda".

I suppose a benefic in fall in the 12th house could't be regarded as credible, or do his essential and accidental debilities only reflect his fear and lack of self confidence?

If an exalted planet is considered "arrogant" and "over confident", could a planet in fall be considered "over diffident"?

I wondered whether Jupiter in his fall represented someone who was at the wrong place at the wrong time and for the wrong reasons, thus wanting to remain annomynous.

If an exalted planet is considered "arrogant" and "over confident", could a planet in fall be considered "over diffident"?

A planet in its fall is in a place of discomfort and Goldstein-Jacobsen says that such a person may make a habit of making frequent apologies. Jupiter will feel that the issue puts him in a difficult position. With the trine there are obviously things he feels he could commit, but he doesn't want to be put up against the wall. There is obviously also something that can be lost here. Capricorn represents a case of utilizing personal judgement but where it isn't possible to please all causes - so either there is realized the need to make a satisfactory and sensible comprimise or the matter is likely to collapse or be withdrawn.

The 'deception' is the potential of getting into something that doesn't balance. The 'rejection' is easier, because people tend to stay out due to mutual interests, or rather 'differences'.

If the introduction of these new terms are difficult to understand, then just treat them as an exercise on getting to understand how planets work together and build upon one another. I try to imagine a situation taken out of the real world as a starting point and take it from there.

I have a case relevant to the issue we are discussion based upon the solar return of a client from October 8. 2008: Jupiter is in 14 Capricorn on the cusp of the 5th house, disposed by Saturn at 17 Virgo in the 1st house. The two planets are in trine and in a 'deception' identical to the case AquaStella described.

It is beyond the scope of this post to explain my approach in full but I work with the chart in a manner that causes Saturn to be the focal planet for events occuring on October 1. 2009. Now this gentleman is the manager and owner of a company that trades the financial markets (5th house). In a previous business setting there was a dispute with some colleagues that tricked him and broke a financial agreement, which caused the team to break up and form separate companies.

Now while my client's company has been successful, the other team has not and they are on the verge of bankruptcy. Under these terms the colleagues from the past came creeping back to my client asking for the companies to be merged. My client is represented by Saturn in the first house. The dubious and misdealing colleagues that already tricked him once are represented by Jupiter in fall in Capricorn.

A decision regarding the potential merge is to be taken on the day where Saturn is trigger planet. The problem is that there is a total mismatch. If there is to be a merge, due to the resources in the companies there has to be a 4/1 split in advantage of my client. In other words he virtually buys and takes over the other company. The Jupiter boys are broke and hardly trustworthy from their state of fall. They do not enjoy the terms and conduct of Saturn in Virgo and want to break free and rebel on the first occasion. 'We took his money once, so we'll do it twice'. On the other hand my client knows about this. He is not happy about picking up Jupiter's bills and he knows he has been let down for a great sum of money on a previous occasion.

There are some advantages that could be gained by a merge, as indicated by the trine from Jupiter to its dispoitor, but only in halfs. I have advised the client that he should consider picking only those pieces that interested him the most (one or two good men) and leave the rest. Really the colaberation is a ticking bomb and I cannot see how it should bring about any joy or comfort. It is better with a malefic in a good celestial state than a benefic in a poor celestial state, and considering the state of Jupiter, its performance is really quite malicious. Jupiter brings nothing good into the relationship, but Saturn is considering whether it could do him some good from the prospects of the trine. But Jupiter does not really want to co-operate and only a few days ago put negociations on hold under the pretention of 'possibly' having access to a better deal.

I have another case here with a client born 31.01.1968 who has Venus 6 Capricorn square Saturn 8 Aries. It is a 'deception' where Saturn disposes Venus but is located in he both his own fall and her detriment, in addition to the square aspect.

Venus is the neck, in Capricorn - something with the bones or joints. Her condition is weakened by Saturn in Aries. The woman has a fault in her neck that the doctors and physiotherapists can see, but cannot explain. The do not know what to do about it. She experiences periods of paralysis due to this disorder, is partially disabled and gets pains all over her face. She also has problems remembering her childhood due to this impediment.

Saturn corrupts Venus in every way. From an astrological point of view I try to work out the first cause of the client's ailment. What goes wrong first? How did the story of Venus and Saturn appear in her life prior to the pains that first occured in her mid 20's. Then there is frequently an issue to be resolved than can come useful in conjunction with manual treatment.