Some interesting thoughts here! Well how about Gunhilde posting the chart data so we can get a closer look?

I have one example which comes to mind where the desired thing was positioned in the 1st - "Should I get a dog?" and L6 (the dog) was in the 1st. The querent went ahead to get the dog - although the querent was not conscious of having already made her decision, to me it seemed a foregone conclusion and I think the chart reflected that loud and clear!

Keren

Ha ha ha! The querent is definitely not concerned with fertility and childbearing, for sure: she is one of my many friends who have chosen to remain childless and takes pains to remain so (after nine hours in a car driving from Scotland back to Cambridge with two rambunctious kids, I begin to see the wisdom of this ).

The question (received by text) was asked on:

Wed, 17th December 2008
22:58 hours (my friends think I don't sleep)
Comberton, ENG
0E02, 52N11

ASC 17.03 Virgo, Regiomontanus houses
Moon 8.13 Virgo H12
Lord 1 Mercury at 8.39 Capricorn in H4

I also note that Uranus sits on the 7th angle. I tend to ignore outer planets unless they are significantly placed, but I wonder what it could mean here, especially since it has completed an opposition to Saturn (L5)?

GH

There are few things that have worked for me:
- Emplacement-even without aspect;
- Moon applying to trine of Sun;
-Moon parallel in declination to POF(another Jacobson idea) and
-in mutual reception without aspect again.

The problem lies with the living beings depicted in 5th and the acts of 5th.

Saturn in 1st,by definition,shows that the querent doesn't know everything about this situation or has got it wrong;mutual reception of 1st lord with a planet that disposes the 7th lord in its fall is trying to tell us why is the other person so hampered or pathetic. In a friends with benefit situation-what is the benefit of the other person.Make sure the quesited is not into making videos
Enough of saturnine scary thoughts!!

On the lighter side,I would have been tempted to text her at 1AM and ask if there are no nappies involved

PD

Gunhilde wrote: I also note that Uranus sits on the 7th angle. I tend to ignore outer planets unless they are significantly placed, but I wonder what it could mean here, especially since it has completed an opposition to Saturn (L5)?

GH

Now,this is just another thing I wanted to ask! What if Uranus is found on the cusp of the 7th in such questions? let's say "Does he/she like me?"- we are not examning the relationship /future or present one) but if there is any sign of attraction between two people. now, if we do find such placement in a such question- do we take this Uranus as a bad sign for a (potential) relationship even though the Querent might not even be interested in one (there are other reasons for asking a question like this one other than to know if you'll end up with someone) or do we take that Uranus as an additional description of the Quesited? (The second option somehow seems more logical to me but, than again- if I knew the answer, I wouldn't be asking this! ).
In the chart I have mentioned in my previous posts- there was also Saturn/Uranus opposition on the 1st/7th axes (with Saturn conjuct Asc) but the person represented by the 7th (The Quesited) has recently divorced (rx 1st is her 7th). i wouldn't generally include outer planet aspects but it seemed very descriptive (I knew about that divorce before drawing the chart).

@Pankajdubey

As usual, I have something devious to suggest

May be it is a warning "Don't even go there-BABIES could be involved".
It could also occur if the prime consideration of one party is getting the other to be a sperm or egg donor.

And as for this suggestion- I do follow you here but I think we should stay close to the subject of the question in such cases. Each house has got multiple maninings plus they can be derived if neccessary. Knowing the nature of the matter questioned should focus our perception IMHO in one direction. I'm not saying that if a person asks "Will I have sex with SFGDT?" and we find the L5 inside the 1st or conjuct Asc we should dismiss the possibility of "Babies" but what if a person asks about gambling or throwing a party- it is still the 5th house matter and who says anyone will make babies on a party (or in a Casino)!
In questions concerning merchandise or sales, we generally include the 7th house to check the "state" of the (potential first) buyer and compare it to the shape of the vendor's ruler (and with the expectable price, the shape of the good on sale etc.) but that same 7th house also represents spouses- it does not neccessarilly mean that the Querent will sell her car to her husband.

(Just my oppinion, of course!)

Yes, I am trying to 'stick to the question at hand', although I too see the validity of considering Saturn at L5 = fertility questions. It's just, in this question, it's the farthest thing from the querent's mind, I can guarantee.

As for Uranus, I am intrigued, but wonder whether it ought to be considered as 'anything', or not. Perhaps it's an indication of the sudden infatuation (from what I gather, there IS an infatuation between them, although curiously this is not shown in the chart at all). The quesited is not divorcing, as far as we know, although he was divorced previously...but I doubt a horary chart would take note of such things if they have no bearing on the question.

The mutual reception between the querent and Saturn perhaps shows the querent's keen desire in 'something happening'.

GH

And sorry, I guess I should clarify that the original question was, "Will something develop between Mr. X and I"...with the 'something', we can assume, meaning 'something' well beyond your normal garden variety friendship.

And sorry again but:

Saturn in 1st,by definition,shows that the querent doesn't know everything about this situation or has got it wrong;mutual reception of 1st lord with a planet that disposes the 7th lord in its fall is trying to tell us why is the other person so hampered or pathetic. In a friends with benefit situation-what is the benefit of the other person.Make sure the quesited is not into making videos

This made me laugh! But I do see what you are saying: why all the focus on Saturn, when Saturn is hardly a desirable planet to have involved, particularly in a question concerning pleasure of whatever sort?

Cheers,
GH

Well, I have done a horary that has nearly the same implications of this one. I've been trying to figure out the result. The chart date is 00:00h of 18 December, 2008 in Ouro Preto, Brazil.

Now, for the background. The querent has been in love with a friend of his for one year and a half. She knows it. Never something really relevant developed in the physical sense for them, so he looked myself for help, and this map is a product of the doubt "will something happen between us in the next two years, that allows us to develop a relationship?". From his blunt words, what was on his mind is the sexual relation that would be the start of the "real relationship".

Now, for my judgement (I'm a begginer at this, by the way, so be nice): the main difference here in my chart is that Moon conjunct AC in it's own triplicity gives it a lot of accidental dignity. Moon has mutual reception by triplicity with both Mercury, from whom she just separates, and Jupiter, which she will join AFTER conjunction with Saturn. Meaning, the same problem. What Jupiter on his fall being only received means to myself, is that he has no interest in Saturn whatsoever, whistle Mercury has. Saturn just do his work here, and his work is binding the two, ruler of 1st and 7th. Jupiter has little Power to do anything about it, being void of any dignity and debilitaded by his fall. IF there was no Mutual Reception I would say that Saturn = prohibition, but in this context it only would represent a lot of pain, suffering and limitations, with a reward that is not that great (4th house of ending being ruled by Jupiter). I have no confidence in this though, and am not sure if I should analyze the moon course up untill the conjunction aspect between the main significators applies (even with Saturn retrogradation, the perfection is made before leaving Capricorn, whatever Saturn retrograde means in this case). I have no confidence in this at all. I'd say that Steven help would be much appreciated, since he put up a chart that in a sense is the opposite of this, and with a positive result (in his a conjunction applying had no power to avoid a nice outcome for him, since a trine was perfected before it, and he got a job).

Another development to this is that the querent, since I could not give him a final answer, called in tears making another question in desperation: "are we really not going to be together"? Although a second map is hardly any help, this was interesting since it had the moon in similar configuration compared to the first I posted (04:34h of 25 December, 2008 in Ouro Preto, Brazil). In this, the Moon will applie conjunction to Mars, but before she translates light to Saturn>Mercury, making things a little bit messier. Any thoughts on this situation?

I've been trying to abstain from this question because I didn't want to think about Saturn too much when I foolishly asked whether or not I myself would find and marry someone as wonderful as my sister and my daughter have found.

today 28 dec 2008
10:26 pm (22:26 hours)
119W11 by 34N12 (just a tad north and west of Los Angeles, CA)

17 vir 43 Asc
19 Cap 09 fifth house cusp
Saturn in 1st at
21 Virgo 46
Mercury, moon and Jupiter in fifth
Mercury 25 cap 46
Moon 26 Cap 53
Jupiter 28 cap 17

Of course there is also Uranus on the 7th house cusp,

I'm not sure in this one if the Moon helps or is in the way, let alone Saturn!

Granny doomed to solitary,
or soon to wed, which I'm not entirely certain.
Woe is me,

What I see here is a heavily subjective question answered like this: "not as wonderfull"...

granny_skot wrote:I've been trying to abstain from this question because I didn't want to think about Saturn too much when I foolishly asked whether or not I myself would find and marry someone as wonderful as my sister and my daughter have found.

today 28 dec 2008
10:26 pm (22:26 hours)
119W11 by 34N12 (just a tad north and west of Los Angeles, CA)

......
I'm not sure in this one if the Moon helps or is in the way, let alone Saturn!

Granny doomed to solitary,
or soon to wed, which I'm not entirely certain.
Woe is me,

Saturn appears to be descriptive here.Sister's husband-Venus in Aquarius;Daughter's husband-Moon in Capricorn are both ruled by Saturn which also disposes 7th lord Jupiter-so saturn is trying to describe the wish.
Do they fit in the with the description of Saturn in Virgo with favourable elements of Mercury,Jupiter and Moon(all trines to Saturn).

Before the traditionalists kill me- I would like to say that there is mutual recepetion between Uranus and Neptune.

PD(in hiding)

My sisters Husband is very very Virgo, My daughters Husband is Scorpio, both of them are very responsible. the sisters Husband is old school in many ways. The daughters hubby very creative and in this century.

what I like about both is that they are both responsible (personally as well as financially)

and both have very creative non work related hobbies which they are active in,

as well as they are both great husbands to their respective wives. supportive, nice, have their goofy sides, etc.

both my sister and my daughter say they have no idea how they finally found mr wonderful after so many mr's pathetic. but I really like and respect both these men, though in many ways they are different, its the comonalities that I like in them both.

also my daughter being an Aquarius is Very Saturnian, so Moon here fairly descriptive. Venus in Aquarius for Brother in law I'm not certain, He is a handsome man, so venus may do, but not lasivious so may not. In fact he's more than a bit reserved. Daughter also been fairly worried about her Mother lately because she is a great kid, so saturn in first also makes sense that way.

Granny

PS to PFN, sigh.....!

I am going to really stretch this one like Lilly and the house he wanted to buy or the girl he helped with marriage .
Jupiter gets exalted in 11th-Daughter's husband and Moon translates from Mercury to Jupiter.Maybe someone your daughter's husband has high regards for but now in some kind of trouble is the person for you.
Go to the new years eve party this week !

best wishes

PD

granny_skot wrote:My sisters Husband is very very Virgo, My daughters Husband is Scorpio, both of them are very responsible. the sisters Husband is old school in many ways. The daughters hubby very creative and in this century.

what I like about both is that they are both responsible (personally as well as financially)

and both have very creative non work related hobbies which they are active in,

as well as they are both great husbands to their respective wives. supportive, nice, have their goofy sides, etc.

both my sister and my daughter say they have no idea how they finally found mr wonderful after so many mr's pathetic. but I really like and respect both these men, though in many ways they are different, its the comonalities that I like in them both.

also my daughter being an Aquarius is Very Saturnian, so Moon here fairly descriptive. Venus in Aquarius for Brother in law I'm not certain, He is a handsome man, so venus may do, but not lasivious so may not. In fact he's more than a bit reserved. Daughter also been fairly worried about her Mother lately because she is a great kid, so saturn in first also makes sense that way.

Granny

PS to PFN, sigh.....!