All,

Interesting posts indeed. I have relocated Latitudinally 5 degrees approx. North and Longitudinally 2 degrees East. I look at both locations for my Solar Returns. There is not too much difference.

Back in Ancient times the native may not have travelled great distances as we do today. A lifetime may be spent in one small village. Air travel as we know it was unkown. So my question is: This would surely influence the Ancient Astrologers when looking at locations in Solar Returns? This influence would undoubtedy color/show up in their work - how many clients would re-locate as we do today.

As part of my imediate family live overseas it seems logical to use the relocation for Solar Returns when life is so different in the Northern Hemisphere and they had to adapt to new things in many areas of life.Transport, languages, friends, work, school egs. Longer daylight hours in summer, shorter daylight hours in winter months.

sunflower

Back in Ancient times the native may not have travelled great distances as we do today. A lifetime may be spent in one small village.

This is often cited and it is difficult to deny. My own experience validates it. I've travelled far more than my parents ever did, and my grandmother lived to age 88 and except for a few day trips to New York City, I don't think she ever left New Jersey much less visited a foreign country. In that spirit I offer this quote:

"About this matter, the old astrologers settled absolutely nothing.; but in common with them, the moderns by tradition only, always erect the figure of the revolution for the latitude of the natal place; but I erect it for the latitude of the place in which the native is found at the very moment of the revolution. And this difficulty, since it is one of the greatest importance in astrology, on account of the travels of a man, by which now and then he is transferred to places distant from his natal place by a sixth or a fourth or even by a whole half of the circle of the earth, and in which places he is found at the time of the revolution, or he may spend his whole life there. "

The above is from book 23 of Astrologia Gallica written by Morin deVillefranche who died in 1656. Apparently in his circles folks were beginning to move around a bit during the 17th century. I'm afraid, that like house systems, this is one of those topics that will never be settled.

Tom

Hello everyone,
Since I live very far away from my birth place I just wanted to post my 2006 SR for my current location and my birth location just to show my mom's passing away in May 5, 2007.
In 2006 the Virgo, Pisces Eclipses were contacting my personal planets in the 2-8 axis and I knew that there was going to be death in my family and sadly my mom passed away and she was a Piscean with Natal sun at 15deg Pisces.
My 2006 SR had a Lunar Eclipse on it which I guess signifies endings? and also had Pluto conjunct an angle ( the Asc in current location and Desc in birth location)
My birth location SR below My current location SR

[his is often cited and it is difficult to deny. My own experience validates it. I've travelled far more than my parents ever did, and my grandmother lived to age 88 and except for a few day trips to New York City, I don't think she ever left New Jersey much less visited a foreign country. In that spirit I offer this quote:[/color]

"About this matter, the old astrologers settled absolutely nothing.; but in common with them, the moderns by tradition only, always erect the figure of the revolution for the latitude of the natal place; but I erect it for the latitude of the place in which the native is found at the very moment of the revolution. And this difficulty, since it is one of the greatest importance in astrology, on account of the travels of a man, by which now and then he is transferred to places distant from his natal place by a sixth or a fourth or even by a whole half of the circle of the earth, and in which places he is found at the time of the revolution, or he may spend his whole life there. "

Tom,

Thank you. I've travelled quite a lot and have moved house further North too. While in US we met people who had never been to New York even though it would not have taken half a day to travel there. Just the way it is. It is a long hike for us to travel to the Northern Hemisphere but we do it anyway!

sunflower

My experience has been that if you live far away from your birthplace, cast the chart for the place you live. I've had birthdays when I've been travelling, and the place I was at the time didn't seem to match up too well to what the year held, so that I'm not so sure of. But I live about 3500 miles from my birthplace, so there's a big difference between the natal and relocated solar returns, and the relocated ones seem more accurate.

Hi all,

I was reading Johannes Vehlow yesterday and he made some interesting comments concerning Solar- and Lunar returns.

Vehlow was a german astrologer working in the 1920-1950ies or so... he used many traditional techniques and was well educated in the history of astrology having been influenced by works of gundel and saxl, f.e. so his views might well be relevant here...

He used the place of birth for returns, because, as he says, returncharts were usually calculated for prediction right after the birth of the native for a whole range of years into the future.using the birth location.without knowing where the native would be in 10 years for his birthday party....

He also writes that a Solar returnchart is valid for 6 months before and 6
months after the birthday....and a lunar for 2 weeks before and after respectively, the birthday itself merely being a kind of culmination of the year...

(he cites Kepler for supporting this view)

I tried this superficially and this principle works fine for my chart at least...

Anyone knows of similar views or examples in the tradition ?


He also uses this principle in his house system were the house cusps are the middle of the houses that are extending 15? before and after the cusp.....

I think this principle might be also applied for eclipses, f.e. where it is known that events are sometimes triggered before an eclipse occurs....



leywand


if anyone can read german, his works are available online and highly recommended:

http://www.sternwelten.at/werke_vehlow.shtml

?An idea might be to look back on previous events in one's life. For example, though I am not sure where I will be in 2009 on my birthday, I assume I will be at my current location, and Mars is oming to my 7th house Moon, ruler of the 10th and placed natally in the 2nd. So it would appear to have a connection with career and money (and cutting of purse strings etc or disagreements with a partner).
The last time Mars came to the Moon was in 1962, when I was young and moved to Germany, the other was in the mid 1990s with a relationship split and move to another place.
Do you think I am on the right track?
Thanks
Gary (in China)

Do you think I am on the right track?

Depends on whom you believe. Most, but not all, astrologers believe that the solar return cannot be accurately used without reference to the natal chart. Some say the return can be used as a stand alone chart, which seems to be what you are doing.

If there is a natal connection between Mars and the Moon in your nativity, then the return is indicating that what that connection means in nativity will occur this year. If you prefer the stand alone method, then it might be just as you say whether there are connections in the nativity or not.

Tom