As a law student I shouldn't do this but since I'm mainly interested in administrative law I'll give it a try.

In astrology I mainly follow Kepler's ideas and barely look at houses or zodiac signs, only at (usually major) aspects (also towards the angles). I ignored the Pars Fortunae and hardly looked at the Nodes.

There have been some tests with astrology students delineating an unknown chart which turned out to be Hitler's. In a quick look at Hitler's chart I don't see very difficult aspects. In his young years he was rather a drop-out. Often murderers turn out to be very charming types or quite 'invisible' individuals. That makes it difficult to look for typical murderer aspects.

In the five charts over here I deliberately looked for the charts with the least aspects. Therefore I immediately dropped 2 and 3. Both have an interesting stellium with the Sun involved and some squares.

Chart 1 has a Mars Upiter square and Sun Saturn Sextile. Venus is in semisextile aspect with Saturn. I still have my doubts about the quintile but let's mention the Jupiter Saturn quintile. Moon trine MC and Sun trine Ascendant give more interesting positions. I only have some doubts about the Mars Saturn position. However they are too wide apart to be in conjunction. In summary, enough aspects.

Chart 4 has a Venus Jupiter square and a Mars Sun square. Enugh restlessness in life and perhaps balanced by the Moon trine MC.

Chart 5 seemed rather incoherent. Hardly any aspects. Sun is conjunct Mercury and okay they are trine to Saturn but I don't think that's enough. The Moon has no aspects to the fast planets or angles, only a very wide square to Saturn. Saturn is in a faint semi square with Jupiter and Ascendant. Mars too is in semi square aspect, here with the Sun and Mercury. Quite tight to Mercury.

This last chart has a few major aspects which often are wide. The only tight aspect is Mars semisquare Mercury. I suddenly see that Jupiter is in conjunction with the ascendant. How could I miss that one. It could give the person a positive side but since Jupiter is only aspecte by the weak semisquare of Saturn, this could give varying thoughts of over selfconfidence and inferiority. (I realise that I just wrote down a conundrum sentence with which one can depar into two ways, the so called 'rainbow ruse' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_readi ... inbow_ruse )
The Jupiter aspect could be abused to be charming to (female?) victims of a male muderer.

I believe it could be this 5th chart that belongs to the murderer.

3 has Fortuna on Algol (if it's calculated correctly) and the MC on Scheat. Which raises a couple of red flags.

3 has Fortuna on Algol (if it's calculated correctly) and the MC on Scheat. Which raises a couple of red flags.

The part of fortune is calculated as ASC + Moon - Sun for day charts. If the astrologer reverses that for night charts the formula then is ASC + Sun - Moon.

The reverse of the part of fortune is the part of spirit. So in day charts Spirit is calculated ASC + Sun - Moon.

My computer is set to use the ASC + Moon - Sun for fortuna day and night. Therefore ASC + Sun - Moon is spirit day and night on my computer. This is no problem if it is a day chart. Charts 2 and 3 are night charts. If anyone looking at these charts reverses the formula for night charts what they see as the POF is actually the part of spirit. They would have to calculate fortuna themselves.

I'm not advocating one method over the other. I can't make up my mind which one makes more sense.

Tom

Hello to all,

For this kind of inquire I think it?s good to look for signs of disturbed mind.

So I looked mainly at Mercury, Moon, and in this case also to Mars.

Considering this, although elements of a disturbed mind can be found in both 2 and 3 chart ( in the 2 chart I have in mind: Mercury combust with no relation with Moon in 12 house opposing Mars in 6 house), I think the murder chart is the 3rd one: Mercury retrograde in Scorpio with a square from Saturn retrograde, contrary to the sect, occidental, in the 8 house; Mars opposing Asc, square Sun, in the 8 house, occidental, being the ruller of Mc and the dispositor of Sun, Venus, Jupiter and Mercury)



It would have been better to know the position of some fixed stars, and also the latitude and declination of planets, but only with images ?.

I don't like the Mercury and Saturn combustion in 2, but - I got roped into a forensics case this past week, and that's echoing Prime Suspect's chart. Even to the sign and degree.

Which doesn't mean it's 2. It takes a bunch of testimonies piled up together, so I don't want to fall into the trap of 'this aspect means X is a murderer'.

I have looked at a few serial killer charts in the past and I seem to recall that the 7th house ruler is often cadent or in the 8th house. I would expect an 8th house emphasis or if this is a sex related murder I would also expect a 5th house link to the 8th. 5th/7th house ruler in the 8th or 12th or vice-versa would be good testimony. Debilitated malefics placed in or ruling key houses can figure. Also in aspect. For example Hitler?s Saturn-Mars square. Following Ptolemy I would be looking for a debilitated Moon, and or Mercury as key indicators of the inner soul as well indicators of a weakened ASC and/or MC ruler and/or any planets posited on the ASC or MC. Malefics aspecting the Moon by opposition, square or conj are worth noting. Clearly we need a lot of testimony as lots of charts will have some of these in isolation. They cant all be killers! In addition I would also be looking for fixed star connections.

Above all factors I look for a debilitated Moon or a peregrine Moon in aspect to a malefic.

There are of course different kinds of murderers from the impulsive to the premeditated and I would expect different signatures for these. That is why I doubt working out temperament type helps s much without knowing the kind of murder committed.

Looking at these charts whole sign and I conclude the following:

Chart 1:
Moon is peregrine (-1)
Sect light is peregrine (-1)
Moon is in the domicile of a debilitated Saturn (-1)
Saturn is in the 8th house (-1)
Moon is the 8th house ruler (-1)
Mutual reception by debility here between Saturn and the Moon (-1).
Asc on the sting of Scorpius (-1)
( Score: -7)

Chart 2
Moon ( Sect light) is cadent (-1)
ASC ruler is inconjunct ASC by whole sign. (-1)
(MC ruler) in 12th house (-1)
Moon is opposing 7th house ruler (-1)
Moon is opposing a malefic ( Mars) (-1)
8th house ruler (Venus) in 12th ( -1)
ASC ruler in 12th ( -1)
Moon in domicile of mercury which is combust (?) (-1)
Lord 4 and 5 is peregrine and combust (-1)
(Score: -9)

Chart 3
Moon is cadent. (-1)
Ascendant ruler is cadent (-1)
Saturn Rx ( Lord 7) in the 8th house (-1)
Lord 5 ( Mars) in the 8th house (-1)
Mercury is Rx, under the beams and in scorpio (1)
10th house ruler in the 8th house (-1)
Lord 12 in the 5th house (-1)
Lord 12 is peregrine and Rx ( -1)
POF on Algol (-1)?
MC on Scheat (-1)?
Score: -10

However, ASC ruler (Moon) has triplicity in this night chart and is in an applying sextile Jupiter and Venus . Jupiter the exaltation ruler of 1st is ruling the 9th is in its terms in Scorpio. Because this I feel the Moon is better placed here and this chart as slightly preferable to chart 2. I have put down Algol and Scheat but as these stars are well outside the ecliptic I don?t take these that seriously.

Chart 4:
Moon is peregrine (-1)
Moon is inconjunct ASC by whole sign (-1)
Moon is on malefic fixed star praeseppe (-1)
Score: -3

Lots of positives here. Sect light is the Sun. Sun is angular, exalted and trine the moon. Angles are all cardinal but mercury and Moon are in fixed signs. There is a malefic fixed star connection with the Moon on Praeseppe. However, Mars is exalted in Capricorn in the 7th. 7th house ruler in the 11th. 10th and 5th house ruler in the 7th. I just don?t see a killer here.

Chart 5:
Moon is cadent (-1)
Moon is peregrine (-1)
ASC ruler is cadent (-1)
ASC ruler is peregrine (-1)
12th house ruler in the 8th (-1)
8th house ruler in the 12th
Moon separating from Saturn by square (-1)
Sect light in detriment (-1)
Sect light in the 8th ( -1)
Dispositor of moon is debilitated ( Mercury) (-1)
Mercury is combust , Rx and in 8th house (-1)
POF in the 8th house (-1)
Dispositor of POF is a debilitated malefic ( Saturn Rx, in the 12th)
South Node in the 8th house (-1)
Saturn in MR with Sun by trine ( both debilitated by sign/house) (-1)
MC ruler ( Mars) in the 6th house on the malefic fixed star Acumen ( the Nebula near Scorpius of the nature of Mars and the Moon) (-1)
(Score -16)

Looking at this chart whole sign there is a real 8th house emphasis here. Mercury, Sun, Venus, South Node and POF. One thing that initially puts you off this chart is the angular, dignified Jupiter right on the ASC. However, Jupiter is the domicile ruler of the 6th house.. Someone told me Barbara Watters demonstrates charts of some murderers with a prominent Jupiter. The issue seems to be that these murderers think they can get away with anything. I accept Jupiter is Lord 9 here and the strongest planet by essential dignity. Lilly, Gadbury etc would probably see it as Lord of the Geniture and Lord of Manners.

Like most people my eye was initially drawn to Chart 2. I can also see issues related to Chart 3 as well. However, I am going out on a limb and plumping for Chart 5 as it seems to have the highest number of negative factors. However, I wouldn?t be surprised to find its chart 2 or 3 for the reasons given.

It would have been better to know the position of some fixed stars, and also the latitude and declination of planets, but only with images ?.

Use Robson's positions and be generous each way with orbs. Moving at only one degree every 72 years (approximately) even a chart from 1700 would have stars 4 degrees different from today's positions. So allowing say 3 degrees either way from Robson would give you something to work with.

Also I've seen "serial killers" mentioned a couple of times. I never said "serial killer." I said "murderer." Serial killer's charts might give insight though.

Tom

Use Robson's positions and be generous each way with orbs. Moving at only one degree every 72 years (approximately) even a chart from 1700 would have stars 4 degrees different from today's positions. So allowing say 3 degrees either way from Robson would give you something to work with.

Like many people I wouldn't work with fixed stars much beyond a degree unless its a first magnitude star. I had assumed these were all 20th century charts but if not that will certainly makes it much more difficult from a fixed star perspective.

Christina says,

I look to see if the malefics afflict the angles AND all four Lords of the angles are corrupted. If so, I feel 99% certain it is a really bad person. Then I check the 12th for enemies, win, lose, incarceration possibilities.

So, my bet is chart No.1. (maybe Jupiter can kill moon...)

I am not changing my choice ( even if I am hopelessly wrong). I just wanted to add that in Chart 4 Mercury looks like its on the malefic fixed star Sharatan ,in the head of the Ram, which is of the nature of Mars and Saturn according to Ptolemy.

Like many people I wouldn't work with fixed stars much beyond a degree unless its a first magnitude star.

I agree, but that wasn't my point. I allowed the larger fudge factor in order to get people thinking about the fixed stars in these charts. If we hold to the same limited orb that we use when we know the data, we might miss something. I look at the stars as coloring a chart a bit. If Regulus rises I wouldn't predict a martial career or a Royal one on that alone. I'd look to see if the rest of the chart goes along with that. So here if I have a chart that I think is a murderer and using current data the fixed star is a bit beyond what I'd use, I might toss it into my thinking anyway. Don't be afraid to consider them if they are a little farther than we might otherwise think influential.

For the record none of these charts are wildly out of our time. There are no medieval charts or charts for babies for that matter. And furthermore, I haven't looked at the stars for the murderer or any of the others as of this writing. I'm not done yet though.

Tom

If we hold to the same limited orb that we use when we know the data, we might miss something. I look at the stars as coloring a chart a bit.

Ok I agree one fixed star connection a criminal, warrior or celebrity does not make.

Anyway, I just noticed Jupiter in Chart 5 is very close to the fixed star Castor, the head of the Northern Twin in Gemini. According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Mercury. According to Robson

''It gives distinction, a keen intellect, success in law and many travels, fondness for horses, sudden fame and honor but often followed by loss of fortune and disgrace, sickness, trouble and great affliction. Its natives are said to be mischievous and prone to violence''

. According to Dr Eric Morse Castor is also noted in natal astrology for ''proneness to mental breakdowns and neurotic distress'. [The Living Stars, Dr. Eric Morse, p.43.]