aglaya wrote:Ok, so, if you're single, I'll stick to my initial approach- your neghbour gets Jupiter i.e. he is the 7th and, according to the reception- he just might be interested in you (your ruler is in his triplicity and in one of the minor dignities). His ruler being in the triplicity of Mercury, your "affection" for Sun, his ruler applying to your Venus... it could be saying that there is a mutual attraction between the two of you but there is no application, quite the opposite (others may disagree). Is he single? couldn't tell. If we'd use the presence of an outer planet in his immediate surrounding (conjunction) we could, maybe, say that he is taken but, then again, i've never used the presence of an outer planet in that way so, I'll leave this to the others. Still, in my oppinion, it wouldn't make any change even if he were single and I'll skip that part. Your ruler is in his detriment after all but, given that ist is securely leaving the area of combustion, you might start seeing things more clearly soon. Currently, like every one else has rightly pointed out- you're simply pretty much smitten with him. This guy's ruler is retrograde (moving away from his natural domicile) and conjunct Neptune (funny you should call him a "dreamy guy" ))) ) and I'm not sure I like that in the first place.

So, back to you! More than one planet inside your 1st and in your rulership is an obvious sign of more than one romantic option, obviously!

I am not sure what you mean by separating aspects and past events. Sorry.

Separating aspects involving significant planets often tell a lot about the past events usually influental or important ones for the matter inquired about. So, given that both of your significators (Moon and Mercury) are leaving one planet behing (Mars)- it could be saying more about a "split-up", lost of interest in someone or simply moving away from someone who used to be present in your life untill recently. So, you might want to think about who the Mars, sitting in your Asc and inside your rulership might be as he is the planet you're moving away from. That planet is in your triplicity and has just left your term so, it could be someone whom you used to be fond of.


The planet that both your significators are applying to is venus. Again, in your 1st and inside your rulership and, again, someone whom you receive in your triplicity. The application is by a favourable aspect and, though your ruler is still not in the best of all shapes, it does bode well. Given that Venus has recently separated from Saturn (1,5 degree orb) and that it was a stressfull square,maybe (just maybe) it could be someone who has recently split up with another person.
Whether he is someone from your past or not should generally be determined by the motion of the planet and, since neither of this planets is retrograde, I'm not so sure he is someone from the past but I may be wrong, of course!

But, i did mention this earlier:

The houses that these two planets rule is more than interesting too-they both bring a very strong influence of the 12th symbolics and, potentially secrets if not double dealing; the Mars rules the Querent's 12th hile the Venus is coming from the intercepted Taurus inside the 12th, and if we turn the chart, we get pretty much the same picture in regard to the 12th of the partner or partnership (the radical 6th).

Since both of these planets (Mars, Venus) fit into this story and since you've said yourself that there was a married man in this story- you might want to think twice before you do anything (with anyone).
As for the "When" part- I'm still not very good at timing plus, we've got two optionshere; your main significator is applying to Venus in 9 degrees but the Moon, co-significator of the Question is applying to it in only 3 degrees and is, apparently also translating the light between the planets so, maybe the shorter period is more likely here. The planets are angular but mutable/fixed, I'm not sure if we should go for weeks here, i'd probably chose months instead. But, take this with a very high dose of caution!

I'm impressed by your reasoning. There is a lot to resonate on here, so I'm going to take a while to marinate on it. Thank you so much!

Ok, I went through all the answers again and, since you said that you were in the beginning stage of learning Horary (not saying I'm an expert! ) I'll add a few words here, mainly regarding this Venus.
Here's the thing- two planets inside your first and in your rulership have obviously easily led all of us to believe that you've got more than one option at hand at the moment which, again, turns out to be correct. But, while the planets could symbolise a person, the could just as well stand for an activity, event etc. This is where the importance of knowing the background story comes into play- you'll have to try to unravel some of the aspects and the suggestions we've come up with by comparing them to the current life circumstances. Separating aspects should be of a great help as they're mainly talking about the things that have already happened or, given that this is a relationship chart, of emotions/relationships...that have already begn to cool off ( I sound as though I'm writing a recipe for a cheese-cake) .
The separating Moon/Venus aspect with the Mars is a beneficial one, so, it could be simply something/someone you've already started moving away from or something that was radiating with a big sense of promise in the past while the current situation does not support that idea any more (just some examples).- At the same time, the planet itself is Mars and I'm sure you know the nature of it. Consider its placement inside the house, the nature of the aspect and of the planet,their rulerships, the signs they're occupying...then you will notice that a favourable aspect has happened when your ruler(s) were even deeper in combustion than they are now ("blinded" in a way) and that they're starting to see things clearly now (wake up call, better insight...) and, then, try to blend all those signs into a single story. Deciphering separating aspects (past events) in a chart is the best way to understand what the applying aspects in it have got to say (what's the promise)! You might end up with a conclusion that does not fit any of our readings but you're the one who is familiar with the background story.
That said- the Venus, especially being a very feminine planet, even your co-significator, is not necessarily another man either. Maybe it 's a romance, or an activity or.... The Moon applying to this planet by sextile in a relationship chart usually bodes well as it often promises that the matter would develop. of course, the main significators applying to each other or being brought together somehow would have to support that. But, the Venus is also your feminine side and, from that standpoint, you might want to examine the separating aspect with saturn a bit more as well. It was a stressful square, Saturn can be older man, but can also be someone elses wife....; you both share(d) the interest in Mercury and you've started separating only a while ago. Again- blend! So, as you can see, the coin is easily flipped here, what matters is that you try to find a "pattern" that fits the actual story.

AquaStella wrote:
Moon will eventually oppose Jupiter Rx. in the 10th, his turned 8th. Not sure what to make of it.
All that you've said makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the analysis. I don't know what Moon opp Jupiter Rx in 10th turned 8th is. How do I research that?

Here's the thing- your main question was "does he like me?" and the answer to that question is pretty easy. Based on the mutual reception of your main significators, he probably does like you. THE END! But here we should use common sense as well- what do you intend to do with that information or, in better words- what is the underlying question? My common sense tells me that you're asking this because you're actually interested in having a relationship with him. And here it gets a bit complicated as the questions could be divided into two main categories: "Will..?" something happen in a given time frame ("Will the two of us be together in the near future?", "Will i get the chance to ask him out?", "Will I establish some kind of communication/contact with him?" etc.) and "HoW...?" will things develop over time, again, in a specific time frame ("What is the romantic future of our relationship in the blah-blah period?", "How will our relationship develop this year?" and similar "hills on the horizon" types of question). If your question was whether the two of you would eventually be together then we'd have to find your significators applying to each other, being well placed (accidentally strong), preferably in a mutual reception, essentially strong, in a good aspect...etc. and make sure that no other planet interposes and prohibits their application. That said, the application of your main significators in this chart is actually prohibited by Venus as She will form a partile trine with Jupiter before Mercury gets to the desired degree. On ther hand- if it were the second type of queston, then we'd basically examine that aspect as an event and something that well precede the application of your significators. We'd let the Moon tell us the sequence of the promised events and influences and would eventually have a broader overview of the situation in a certain period of time. The opposition of the main significators itself is not necessarily a bad sign in a relationship chart cast for two people who are still not together if there are enough signs that the opposing factors can be overcome. Your ruler will be in a better shape then only his ruler stays retrograde and you're both cadent. So, it will, pretty much depend on the nature of the real inquiry!
But, then again- learning how to ask a Horary question is a leeson in Horary astrology just like any other!

I hope this makes sense!

aglaya Amazing explanation. You should be a teacher! Thank you so much. I have a lot to read and a lot to study, but you did explain it in a way that's easy for a beginner. I've learned separating aspects today. I've also learned about how you so cleverly approach a question beginning to end. You even intuitively pursued the "question behind the question," so to speak - the "if he's attracted/will something become of this?" I am glad you pointed this out - I was a little shy.

I have read over your answer twice and will read it again and look at the chart at the same time. Thank you for making this so beneficial to me!!

PS: I think I know the 12 H person!

Well, I'm glad if any of these "explanations" make sense and help you understand the things a bit better but a teacher- hardly! ))
I've only started learning Horary about a year ago and you can find a sack of stupid questions, attempts to pull a "YES" out of a "NO" chart and hasty conclusions among my first posts here.

As a matter of fact, i'm currently scratching my head over a chart with a very similar placement myself and trying to figure out the symbolics of Venus inside the 1st as well,.
That's why this forum i a great place and I hope you'll stay and learn here at least as much as I did. While the knowledge is in books, the solid approach comes from experience and this place offers a precious possibility to exchange experiences and learn from other people's readings and, well, from their mistakes too!

I guess the key is in taking one step at a time. I'd been studying Astrology for about 7 years when I first took up learning Horary and decided I'd learn form my early mistakes this time. So, unlike in the very beginning of my Natal studies when I was literally suffocating in different books, approaches, systems etc. I decided I'd stick to one source in horary until I see that I've accepted the elementary facts. So, I started with Cristian Astrology, of course. It wasn't until nine months later that I opened Frawley's Horary textbooks for the first time. And other authors. Then, some of the things found in their books have actually helped me understand some very confusing things and, though I'm not what is called a "Frawley student" I've accepted some of his approaches because they simply made a lot of sense. I'm sure that if I had started learning from both books, i would've still been nowhere in April. )))

Keeping your own records is great too. And again, this is a great place to expand the number of delineated charts and see how other Astrologers approach them, where most of us tend to make a mistake, getting the updates and re-evaluating the charts, discovering patterns that you've never come across before in your books ....

Anyways, do keep us posted on this one!

Oh, yes, and as for the "question behind the question" part- well, obviously, none of us is interested in knowing whether someone fancies us or not only so that we could show off in front of our friends. Or, (following J.Frawley's logic), who'd pay for a chart reading only to get such a trivial information. So, it is always something that "bothers" the client! Now, what we can do is to use our common sense in order to "decipher" the underlying question or,preferably, advise the Querent to put the question clearly. Some questions are often labeled as "non-radical" ones- when the Querent actually wants to know something completely else but, in cases such as this one, everything is actually crystal clear- "does he like me?" means "i like him!" only the Querent was too shy to admit that. She (you) wants to know if he'll eventually become her boyfriend. Why, of course! We examine your significators and get a picture of what is going on. But, imagine if the question was, say- Is my neighbour having troubles in marriage/with his wife? Asking a third party question should have a very good reason but, again- the Querent might be an elderly lady interested in whether her neighbour's wife is aggressive and whether he is actually in danger in which case, she should call the police! ( lovely example, you must admit- a bully wife!). But, if the underlying question was "How easily could I ruin that marriage?" or "Is he ready to leave his wife over me?" than we'd probably be looking at a chart cast for a non-radical question as some members tend to call it (And i like it ) if not a non-radical chart.

But, with time you'll see that common sense needs to be used on regular basis . The "astrological common sense"! I've mentioned that the opposition in a relationship chart like this one does not necessarily need to be a bad sign as differences can often be overcome (if there is a promise for that in the chart, of course) and we want the main significators to be brought together by an aspect in the first place! But what if the couple was already in a relationship or married; opposition does not sound that great when found in a chart of a married couple, does it?! The man and the woman have already applied to each other sort of speaking, they're married and now they're opponets. While, on the other side, a soon-to-be boyfriend and his soon-to-be girlfriend can sometimes find a way to overcome the obstacles and differences between them and establish a relationship i.e. be brought together by an opposition. So, it can be both separation and overcoming obstacles (and getting together)- depending of the situation.

Separating aspects denote past events and, sometimes, that the matter inquired about is already a matter of past (or that the most fruitful phase has already ended). But we've had a pregnancy chart here on forum not so long ago with the ruler of the Querent combust on the point of exaltation of Jupiter (natural significator of children) and in a separating aspect with the ruler of the 5th (she was already 42 and I believe you know what the first impresion was). Most of us thought it looked terrible! But the fact is- she had already been pregnant when she asked the question (separating aspects= the pregnancy had already occurred, the conception was the matter of past, not the pregnancy) and her combust ruler in Cancer (fruitful) was actually blinded (could not see that)! A retrograde significator could be a bad sign in some charts and a great sign in a Lost object Horary chart (the object will be recovered- it's going back to its owner), or even in relationship charts, the ex is coming back...and so on, and so on.

And once in a great while the question behind the question really is "does he love me?"

Or at least that happened to me once and I was the one who was asking.

Confusing relationship, extreme exenuating circumstances on both sides, and I hadn't done a horary on it because I couldn't quite get my head around what I really, really wanted or needed to know, and I knew it'd affect whether I stayed or left or whatever else I did once I saw the chart.

Well, 'does he love me?' was exactly what I wanted and needed to know, and I knew at that time asking him would've been hopeless since he was busy convincing himself it could never work on account of the culture gap between us and being all 'rational'.

So - right then, as soon as it hit me - I drew up the chart. Ought to have printed it out and framed it, because it was so perfectly clear, and described the situation to a 'T'. And I knew what to do. In other words - stick around, he'll see the light yet. Had the answer been 'no', I would have left. Seriously. But it wasn't a 'stay or go' question. Hard to explain - I just had a 'horary moment' so to speak, and took advantage of it.

Occasionally, it's a legit question. All by itself.

That your question is a love question is obvious because in your delineation you call the seventh house the "love interest house".

So we can leave the third house and find the significator of your "dreamy guy" in the ruler of the seventh: Jupiter. As mentioned in the comments above, there is no aspect perfecting between Mercury (you) and Jupiter (him) because both are beyond their moiety of orbs and there is a lack of mutual reception between both.

But there is an (hopefully not mentioned before!) aspect-like translation of light between Mercury and Jupiter. The Moon just separates of her conjunction with Mercuy and gives Mercury's virtue to Venus when reaching her by sextile in three degrees and about sixteen minutes. Within four degrees and some minutes Venus perfects her trine to Jupiter and finally translates the light of Mercury to him and thus she contacts you and the "dreamy guy".

In my opinion the intervening opposition of the Moon to Jupiter does not corrupt this last translation because the Moon is the cosignificator of the querent and hence no third party.

Nevertheless this might be a hint perhaps that you should not contact your "dreamy guy" at the beginning by yourself, but by a third person signified by Venus. She being Lady of the fifth (i.e. the third of the third) this could be your neighbour's sister or brother - even if your "dreamy guy" in your question as the possible subject of your love he is your neighbour too. On the other hand the helping person could be a brother or sister of another neighbour or simply a friend of the Jupiter-man (the fifth as the eleventh of the seventh).

Furthermore, Venus is Lady of the twelfth and of the part of fortune too. So, why shouldn't you try to make her, who already dwells in your house, the Ascendant, your successful postillion d'amour (the fifth house beeing that of ambassadors also) and yourself happy?

Johannes

aglaya wrote:Oh, yes, and as for the "question behind the question" part- well, obviously, none of us is interested in knowing whether someone fancies us or not only so that we could show off in front of our friends. Or, (following J.Frawley's logic), who'd pay for a chart reading only to get such a trivial information. So, it is always something that "bothers" the client! Now, what we can do is to use our common sense in order to "decipher" the underlying question or,preferably, advise the Querent to put the question clearly. Some questions are often labeled as "non-radical" ones- when the Querent actually wants to know something completely else but, in cases such as this one, everything is actually crystal clear- "does he like me?" means "i like him!" only the Querent was too shy to admit that. She (you) wants to know if he'll eventually become her boyfriend. Why, of course! We examine your significators and get a picture of what is going on. But, imagine if the question was, say- Is my neighbour having troubles in marriage/with his wife? Asking a third party question should have a very good reason but, again- the Querent might be an elderly lady interested in whether her neighbour's wife is aggressive and whether he is actually in danger in which case, she should call the police! ( lovely example, you must admit- a bully wife!). But, if the underlying question was "How easily could I ruin that marriage?" or "Is he ready to leave his wife over me?" than we'd probably be looking at a chart cast for a non-radical question as some members tend to call it (And i like it ) if not a non-radical chart.

But, with time you'll see that common sense needs to be used on regular basis . The "astrological common sense"! I've mentioned that the opposition in a relationship chart like this one does not necessarily need to be a bad sign as differences can often be overcome (if there is a promise for that in the chart, of course) and we want the main significators to be brought together by an aspect in the first place! But what if the couple was already in a relationship or married; opposition does not sound that great when found in a chart of a married couple, does it?! The man and the woman have already applied to each other sort of speaking, they're married and now they're opponets. While, on the other side, a soon-to-be boyfriend and his soon-to-be girlfriend can sometimes find a way to overcome the obstacles and differences between them and establish a relationship i.e. be brought together by an opposition. So, it can be both separation and overcoming obstacles (and getting together)- depending of the situation.

Separating aspects denote past events and, sometimes, that the matter inquired about is already a matter of past (or that the most fruitful phase has already ended). But we've had a pregnancy chart here on forum not so long ago with the ruler of the Querent combust on the point of exaltation of Jupiter (natural significator of children) and in a separating aspect with the ruler of the 5th (she was already 42 and I believe you know what the first impresion was). Most of us thought it looked terrible! But the fact is- she had already been pregnant when she asked the question (separating aspects= the pregnancy had already occurred, the conception was the matter of past, not the pregnancy) and her combust ruler in Cancer (fruitful) was actually blinded (could not see that)! A retrograde significator could be a bad sign in some charts and a great sign in a Lost object Horary chart (the object will be recovered- it's going back to its owner), or even in relationship charts, the ex is coming back...and so on, and so on.

Since you mentioned this, I had a look at another post you made about your cousin's crush. It was very enlightening to see your thought process. I put the chart side by side the interpretation and tried to follow. It was a little hard, I don't know what "aspect" should look like, but I did learn your very point about the real question.

Note the board in general, and I will try to do this myself. Let's ask the REAL question no matter how embarassing. I will try. I guess this is also about the truth in which we communicate to ourselves. Maybe we'll make some astrologer's life a little easier in the process?

johannes susato wrote: As mentioned in the comments above, there is no aspect perfecting between Mercury (you) and Jupiter (him) because both are beyond their moiety of orbs and there is a lack of mutual reception between both.

Could this be because of events? Meaning: perhaps because we've never formally met? We only say hello in passing, so there is no connection there? Just wondering aloud here...

johannes susato wrote:But there is an (hopefully not mentioned before!) aspect-like translation of light between Mercury and Jupiter. The Moon just separates of her conjunction with Mercuy and gives Mercury's virtue to Venus when reaching her by sextile in three degrees and about sixteen minutes. Within four degrees and some minutes Venus perfects her trine to Jupiter and finally translates the light of Mercury to him and thus she contacts you and the "dreamy guy".

Does this translate to a conversation, dating, relationship? Is is possible to tell what the connection is at all? I don't know much about horary to know this.

johannes susato wrote: Nevertheless this might be a hint perhaps that you should not contact your "dreamy guy" at the beginning by yourself, but by a third person signified by Venus. She being Lady of the fifth (i.e. the third of the third) this could be your neighbour's sister or brother - even if your "dreamy guy" in your question as the possible subject of your love he is your neighbour too. On the other hand the helping person could be a brother or sister of another neighbour or simply a friend of the Jupiter-man (the fifth as the eleventh of the seventh).

This is a most interesting reasoning. I'll think about this!

johannes susato wrote:Furthermore, Venus is Lady of the twelfth and of the part of fortune too. So, why shouldn't you try to make her, who already dwells in your house, the Ascendant, your successful postillion d'amour (the fifth house beeing that of ambassadors also) and yourself happy?

Johannes, are you saying Part of Fortune is in 12 H type-man? Sorry I'm confused about this last point.

I'm so happy to read your analysis, thank you very much! I'm sorry for all the questions.

One more thing - Is the general consensus to not pursue "Dreamy Guy" and just see what happens. Something small may happen, but there are other options (12H coming?)

Ok, I will stop asking so many questions. I am just so happy to discover this all and such wonderful helpful people!!!

Hi, Johannes susato! I just read your post and, while I agree that this is a 1st/7th axes question and that there is no immediate application of the main significators, I was wondering as to why you would suggest that there is no mutual reception between the main significators?

johannes susato wrote:..... Mercury (you) and Jupiter (him) because both are beyond their moiety of orbs and there is a lack of mutual reception between both.

the main significator are actually receivibg each other in their triplicities which is a good reception, they're not peregrine and thought they're cadent, I just noticed that Freedom has decided to use equal houses system; it would be interesting to see their placements in Regio.

I'm also not sure if we could examine this Venus as a translator or even a Collector of light.

johannes susato wrote:
But there is an (hopefully not mentioned before!) aspect-like translation of light between Mercury and Jupiter. The Moon just separates of her conjunction with Mercuy and gives Mercury's virtue to Venus when reaching her by sextile in three degrees and about sixteen minutes. Within four degrees and some minutes Venus perfects her trine to Jupiter and finally translates the light of Mercury to him and thus she contacts you and the "dreamy guy".

In my opinion the intervening opposition of the Moon to Jupiter does not corrupt this last translation because the Moon is the co significator of the querent and hence no third party.Johannes

While I do agree that the Moon should not be examined as a prohibitor as She is the co-ruler, including a fourth planet (Moon from Mercury to Venus and then Venus from Moon to Juputer) would be a strange rolling translation (formation) that I'm not sure I've come across in any of the traditional sources so far. Furthermore- I'm not sure that this Venus can act as a translator any way;, in order for a planet to be a good translator it should be swifter than either of the significators, in a separating aspect with one of them and immediately applying to the other one (or we should have a slower planet that both significators are applying to in order to have a Collector) while here we have a Venus that is slower thamn mercury and faster than Jupiter; she is applying to L7 while L1 is applying to her and, finally, she will perfect the aspect with L7 first (and wil meet L1 only after that). So, both aspects are yet to take place and, from that standpoint, I more inclined to see her as a prohibitoer than a collector or translator . Much will depend on the real construction of the underlying question here, of course because the Moon, though separating from the Querent's ruler,is applying to L7 which could be a promise of a future event but if we'd examine this as a basic "will the two of us be together?" question then the Venus gets there before Mercury does. If Venus is the opponet, the her chances are low as Jupiter is in the sign of her fall, but if it is simply the feminine side of the Querent then this affection is not necessarilly of a sexual kind.On the other hand, like i said, it could be simply on of the events preceding the "meeting" promised by this opposition and, given that Mercury is well received by Jupiter, such placement could be promising.

Dreamy guy in Regiomontanus