Skyscript Astrology Forum

I will not use this forum to bemoan the state of education in my country,but rather say that there is a tutor who tells pupils to read a book called "The Elizabethan Worldview" by Holmyard before they touch any astrology books so they learn to think like people did in former times. So far I have heard only one of Ben Dykes lectures but even that alone has given me something to think about.

Regards

Matt

While I think Ben is doing a great job - and hey just in case anyone HASN'T seen it - Logos & Light is here: http://www.bendykes.com/logos-light.htm - so go download the free lecture, or even buy one or two - that still doesn't get us where we need to be.

Even though Ben should probably be doing books on MP3 - and maybe that's where it's all at now. I've only got two of his lectures, but I'm impressed. Not knocking the guy's work - I've got it advertised on my blog, for that matter.

Now, if you're going to end up like me (please don't - you don't want to know how little money I make!), doing horaries or poring over natal charts, return charts, directing the ascendant by term, looking at firdaria, profections, and all that other neat stuff that either a Mercury-ruled house or house containing Mercury that's the 11th house from Fortuna (if you make money from astrology, check this) will cause you to do, that's one thing.

I still think a decent introductory text explaining the fundamentals can be written that doesn't require a degree in philosophy to get through it.

I still think a decent introductory text explaining the fundamentals can be written that doesn't require a degree in philosophy to get through it.

And so do I. In my opinion, it is not reasonable to expect someone to write a beginner's text on traditional astrology that incorporates Neo-Platonist philosophy. I got to thinking after I posted that Christian Astrology is a primer. No knowledge is assumed on the part of the student. A student in the 21st century might swoon at the idea of tackling an 800 page primer, that is exactly what they did in the 17th century.

It is also true that Lilly's language drives contemporary readers nuts, so perhaps the format could be "borrowed" and the text written in contemporary English or whatever language such a text is being considered. It would also be necessary to note that what is being taught is not what is more readily available elsewhere so when the student saw the word "malefic" he didn't think we are a bunch of malcontents.

Kevin Burke wrote a book titled: Astrology: a Comprehensive Guide to Classical Interpretation. I have not read this book, but I have skimmed it in a bookstore on more than one occasion hoping it is exactly what we're looking for on this thread, but I can't get past the idea that he promotes the use of Chiron. Burke is a student of Lee Lehman's. I believe this is more of an introduction of traditional concepts and vocabulary to moderns, but it is intended for the absolute beginner.

I will not use this forum to bemoan the state of education in my country,but rather say that there is a tutor who tells pupils to read a book called "The Elizabethan Worldview" by Holmyard

Isn't the author's name Tillyard? Or are we talking about two books with a similar title? The book I'm thinking of is called The Elizabethan World Picture Regardless, the point is well taken.

And hence the problem of transmission from the ancients Very Happy They too wrote to someone who was expected to have certain knowledge.

The ancients didn't have printing presses much less word processors and the MP3 format. That assumed knowledge had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere was probably oral tradition or communicated in an ancient classroom. We have no such excuses. Instead we have to obey the markets and persuade a publisher that there is a crying need for our work and that will translate into profits for him.

Therein lies an avenue to pursue. We need to create a market. Some of that work is being done right here on this Forum as well as other places, but instead of fighting the moderns we ought to be competing with them for the best of the beginners. There is a Yahoo group for "Young Astrologers" and it is thoroughly modern. We have a few places but again they all assume a certain level of expertise that even dyed in the wool traditionalists might not possess. We need to form small groups of interested individuals. Invite people over for coffee and cake and talk about our love of the subject. In other words create an interest and then go to the publisher with orders in hand. No one is going to do that for us.

Tom

Me earlier in this thead. No no no - NOT Kevin Burk. I grabbed his book at a dollar sale - had I paid more I would have been Very Upset.

Read a supposed intro to trad astrology by Kevin Burk, but it's modern astrology with dignities thrown in and he doesn't even define the dignities right (face and term are all messed up).

And all sorts of other strange ideas, like the outer planets can rule because the Sun isn't really the Sun, it's the Earth-Moon dyad.

Mmmm....okay. What is that in English, anyway?

Sadly, I'm serious. It would be an okay intro to modern astrology, so long as you can take the beginning dogma of absolute free will, choosing your life before you're born, reincarnation, and many other really - non-traditional - things.

And Tom, thank you for making eminent sense here. We really are talking about the market, and hey - I want the good'uns to come to us!

I don't proselytise religion. I have been known to proselytise trad astrology sometimes, though. We need to create a market, or at least widen that tiny niche in the one we've got, instead of making it more of a 'keep-out' club!

Sorry but I must have got the name of the author wrong.

Matt

Fair point but we risk going into the 21st century with a whole new generation of astrologers having sex in the eighth house and starting a delineation with pluto and ending with uranus.Do you think I am kidding?I have seen them at it.

It makes me sick.....No - wait a minute - chiron makes me sick

Matt

steven wrote:
The purpose of any book in my opinion cannot be to popularise Classical astrology. That is most defineitely the wrong motivation. In the west it will NEVER be popular.

Steven

I don't agree for the only fact that around is full of people selling his/her own course of traditional astrology.

Some of them are people without any education that sell what they copy from others, profiting from the fact that people around them know less than them and cannot check. In the land of blinds.....

I tell you frankly. I could be almost the same in Italy because nobody knows traditional astro world. I could copy whatever, Martin's book or Deborah's one, or Zoller course.....

Just I'm a little unlucky with Latin because in Italy people aged more than 40 have surely studied at school and in many classes Latin is compulsory.

Obviously I don't do, but just because I'm honest, some others are not like me.

And this is just because traditional astrology is the big business nowadays.

People is hungry for the book or the teacher who shows him/her the light of traditional astrology, they don't want to lose their time to study and buy and read books, they are ready to buy knowledge as they buy goods at the supermarket.


I always was very critical with the fact that CieloeTerra hardly shares things with people which are not really interested and disposed to work a lot, but now I'm not so sure they are wrong.

margherita

People is hungry for the book or the teacher who shows him/her the light of traditional astrology, they don't want to lose their time to study and buy and read books, they are ready to buy knowledge as they buy goods at the supermarket.

But they can?t just buy knowledge, and surely anyone who is predisposed to shine at astrology knows there are no cheap short-cuts. But I do know what you mean. Only yesterday I was told by a member of this forum about a ?senior member? of another forum who has copied out many of my articles and posted them as a ?beginner?s course?. In fact this person ? who was a member of this forum until I banned his IP yesterday ? had the cheek to be offering certificates to anyone who read through the material. On this site he admitted to have only been studying the subject for a few months, yet already he thinks he can offer a course and qualify people ? based on my unapproved material.

The people who rush to fill the gap in the market are usually the people who are least qualified to do that. Magazines, journals and web sites are all offering material for beginners, much of it for free, so I don?t think there is a real problem, especially because they are well equipped to revise the content as principles become more clearly established. In fact the worse thing is probably for someone to try to offer a definitive introduction right now, when a lot of new information is still coming to the surface and being evaluated for importance.

Deb wrote:
The people who rush to fill the gap in the market are usually the people who are least qualified to do that.

To me the most absurd thing is that inside academy the most you quote others' texts, the most the work is worthy because it means you have read many texts, and to write a dissertation you should have read at least 80-100 books, in the case of traditional astrology it seems it's the contrary, some self made "experts" delete any references let alone texts they could not read...

I saw many cases in these years, the expert of Cardano who cannot read a word of Latin, the expert of Latin who cannot translate a stupid word, to me it's an offence to the human intelligence...

margherita

Olivia wrote:People have been asking me about beginning books for traditional astrology, and I'm coming up empty here.
Joseph Crane - not something I'd throw at someone who doesn't know what a sign glyph is.

Hello,
Yeah -- my mother's been telling me that since my first book. And it's not getting any better.

Seriously, next year it will be 25 years since "Christian Astrology" came out and there's enough expertise out there for a couple of people to produce a good introductory book that can give an absolute beginner pithy information about astrology's symbols and applications. (I wish I could say the same was true with Hellenistic astrology -- like the joke about the Israeli Cabinet: four opinions for every two people.)
My first astrology book was -- believe it or not -- Isabella Hickey's Astrology: A Divine Science (I think that's what is was called.) Graphics, key points highlighted, simple definitions that suggested great profundity.
I would love to recommend a similar book but from a traditional point of view. A couple of people have to sit down and develop it together.
Joseph

I agree with Steven in that philosophy is essential. For all the argument between Hellenistic, medieval, and 17th century astrology enthusiasts, the one thread that all have in common is a basic philosophical underpinning.

A basic primer is good enough. Ben got the ball rolling with his lectures.