Hello Tzu Jan,

I want to tell you that you are not alone.

I also used Morinus and a well rectified birthtime and came up with VERY LITTLE CORRESPONDENCES between major events and aspects to "back them up."

I don't want to argue about whose method is best. Any system is valid, if you can make it WORK.

I will mention that upon using a different system of Primary Directions, not available in Morinus, there was a definite correspondence of aspects to events...

As two examples:

Death of Mother

Neptune sextile 8th (0? 1' orb, aspect maturity within the week of the event!)
South Node conjunct Descendant (0? 1' orb, within the week!)
IC square Moon (0? 1' orb, within the week!)

Married

Dsc opposite Venus (0? 0.2' orb, within 2 days!)

Re: "...The major one would normally fall within the correct year..."

Correct YEAR??? Surely "usually within the month, often within the week" is much better performance?

[If the Primary Directions system that you're attempting to use doesn't give aspects to events within minuscule minutes of exactitude, then something is wrong. (rectification and/or system)]

I honestly believe that you won't find these types of results using any other system, but by all means, try them all. There is nothing to lose.



TransmaniaconMC

[If the Primary Directions system that you're attempting to use doesn't give aspects to events within minuscule minutes of exactitude, then something is wrong. (rectification and/or system)]

Interestingly, nobody ever made this sort of claim until after the tradition of using primary directions had been discontinued in the latter part of the 20th century... Mikes you fink, don' it?

Hello Martin,

Re: "...nobody ever made this sort of claim until after the tradition of using primary directions had been discontinued in the latter part of the 20th century..."

Yes, it does make one think and it makes SENSE as to why (as you say) they were discontinued. If the system CAN'T make those types of claims, then the system isn't so useful. (both in comparison and inherently so)

Studying ancient techniques and mining them for Gold, is a GOOD thing. I won't argue that. Sticking with a system that, as you mentioned, gives correct to the year symbolism on the major aspects seems counter-productive in light of a system that usually gives correct to the month indications and often correct to the week. By all means, don't take my word for it. You are heartily encouraged to try it and judge its merits.

...and that seems fair.


TransmaniaconMC

TransmaniaconMC wrote:Sticking with a system that, as you mentioned, gives correct to the year symbolism on the major aspects seems counter-productive in light of a system that usually gives correct to the month indications and often correct to the week. By all means, don't take my word for it. You are heartily encouraged to try it and judge its merits.

...and that seems fair.
TransmaniaconMC

I haven't managed to figure out the PD-system you were/are using.
I am sure that a lot of people are interested

rob

Hello Rob,

Since you asked...

The system is Topocentric Primary Directions. There's not a lot of material on them on the web, though there is some. Especially look for Wendel Polich and Anthony Nelson Page and especially the work of Alexander Marr to get a background, if interested.

As for trying them out... let me suggest the Astro program. It is FREE. (You will have to have a well-rectified birthtime, though if you're astute, you can also use Astro TO RECTIFY your chart) One caveat, the free Astro program only runs on a computer with FAT32 filesystem. Additionally, there is a great software, from Isaac Starkman, called Polaris. This is rectification software, but also contains a complete implementation of Topocentric Primary Directions amongst other approaches. (only runs on Windows XP)

Much luck in your studies. If you look into this, I am confident, you will get outstanding results. I have found nothing else like it for TIGHT, APPROPRIATE-SYMBOL'd aspects to events.

If you have questions, I'd be more than happy to help you out!

By the way, since you're curious...here are a couple of more examples to see the kinds of correspondences TPD's provide.

Churchill (Death)

MC sesquiquadrate Saturn (0? 3')
Asc square Moon (0? 4')
Mars opposite MC (0? 9')

Princess Diana (Death)

Asc trine Mars (0? 0')
Neptune square 8th (0? 3')

TransmaniaconMC

TransmaniaconMC wrote: One caveat, the free Astro program only runs on a computer with FAT32 filesystem. Additionally, there is a great software, from Isaac Starkman, called Polaris. This is rectification software, but also contains a complete implementation of Topocentric Primary Directions amongst other approaches. (only runs on Windows XP)

TransmaniaconMC

Currently I have no Windows, so I can't test them.
I am really looking forward to reading the experts' opinions about this Topocentric PDs (TPDs).
As far as I know the Kolev-Placidus also does TPDs.

rob

Hello Rob,

I have also heard that Kolev's program does them, but I have no personal experience with that program, so can't comment on, how full or the quality of, the implementation.

A few more examples, just for your amusement...

O.J. Simpson (at the Murders)

Uranus semisextile Mars (0? 1')
Saturn opposite 8th (0? 11')
Neptune opposite Dsc (0? 11')

Hitler (at Suicide)

Mars semisextile MC (0? 1')
Moon sextile South Node (0? 2')
Sun inconjunct Uranus (0? 2')

Nixon (at Wife's Death)

Mars square IC (0? 4')
Node trine Saturn (0? 4')
8th conjunct Uranus (0? 10')

And...one more thing to whet your appetite. Studying Marr's work will also allow the calculation of the True Epoch chart. With both charts "in hand", you will get even more spectacular results. (example below)

My Father's Death

MC conjunct Jupiter (0? 0')
Neptune square Saturn (0? 1')
Mars sesquisquare MC (0? 3')
Neptune sesquisquare Sun (0? 3')
Saturn opposite Node (0? 3')
Mars semisquare MC (0? 3')
Asc conjunct Pluto (0? 5')
Pluto square MC (0? 6')
12th conjunct Node (0? 7')
Neptune opposite Mars (0? 8')
12th opposite Saturn (0? 9')

Any of the above COULD lead you to the correct assumption, ie. my Father's Death. All of them together is like a Post-It that says "death of Father" stuck on your forehead with an icepick.


TransmaniaconMC

Hi TransmaniaconMC,

I am not an expert at PDs but the minor aspects are suspicious to me(e.g. sesquiquadrat to an intermediate housecusp).
I am sure that the users of the Regio or Placidus PDs could prove us the correctness of their system.
Makransky also describes the TPDs in his book, so the algorithms are there.

I understand that you found the TPDs the best but it would be good to read other people's comments too.
However I am curious about this system and planning to implement it in the future (in Morinus).

rob

Hello Rob,

Yes...sorry about that. You are correct. Normally, minor aspects to intermediate house cusps are not used...though they are there to see. Conjunctions and oppositions to intermediate house cusps are VERY TELLING in this system.

I too would like to hear others' WHO HAVE STUDIED the system to comment on it. Nothing on here that I could read that would please me more...

Good luck in your studies!

Re: Topocentric Primary Directions in Morinus

Please let that happen! It will advance the use of TPD's, which can ONLY be a positive thing and it would make Morinus' PD module really something! There is a void for this VALUABLE technique (both in literature and in software implementations) and any steps towards "righting that wrong" is an obvious step in the right direction!

TransmaniaconMC

Do you have a link to the astro program? typing Astro and software into google is like asking what begins with the letter a.

Re: Googling everything starting with "A"

LOL I see what you mean!

Ask and ye shall receive,

http://www.juanestadella.com/softwareewng.html

Don't forget to grab the installation/usage instructions (separate download).

Enjoy!

TransmaniaconMC

rob wrote:
I understand that you found the TPDs the best but it would be good to read other people's comments too.
However I am curious about this system and planning to implement it in the future (in Morinus).

But you would not implement Placido under the pole before TPD ?

I became mad to have them in Kolev's Placidus, the pole is right, the arc too and still I cannot have the same result.

I have the same positions for planets but I was unsuccessful for aspects, I don't understand Kolev

And under the pole directions are very easy to calculate, you will add in Morinus? please...... They almost just use those in CieloeTerra...

margherita