And if swift in motion is a strength, slow is a debility.

It's not exactly like that.
Speed depends on planet phase, it is not independent from it so for example a planet under the Sun beam or combust is very fast, still it is burned.

When the planet is far from the Sun tends to be slow.

Speed, light and distance from the Sun in Ptolemy/Aristotle scheme are strictly connected: we cannot have one without another.


margherita

Eddy wrote: In transits I noticed several times that the period of the planetary station when the planet is still close to (the aspect to) a natal point has quite an effect.

I agree too....but generally it seems I agree with you
margherita

Gjiada wrote:
It's not exactly like that.
Speed depends on planet phase, it is not independent from it so for example a planet under the Sun beam or combust is very fast, still it is burned.

When the planet is far from the Sun tends to be slow.

So this clearly means these variations in the speed as mentioned above are quite different from apparent slowness in planetary motion during retrogradation , as observed from the Earth.

Isn't it?

Arihant wrote: So this clearly means these variations in the speed as mentioned above are quite different from apparent slowness in planetary motion during retrogradation , as observed from the Earth.

Isn't it?

I just gave an example because we know that inferior planets have a different motion than superior ones, so a superior retrograde planet is going or leaving the opposition of the Sun, while on the other hand an inferior retrograde planet is going or leaving the conjunction with the Sun.

So we have different situations.
Part of Bezza's comment to the first book of Tetrabiblos (Commento al Primo Libro della Tetrabiblos di Claudio Tolemeo: con una nuova traduzione e le interpretazioni dei maggiori commentatori , Milano: Nuovi Orizzonti, 1992) where are showed the schemes of planets are given here:

http://www.cieloeterra.it/articoli.epic ... cicli.html

It's a shame that some people can profit from the fact Bezza did not translate in English his works to delete credits. Never saw something like that.

Anyway, myself I have followed lessons of a close friend of Bezza, Giancarlo Ufficiale, and the first thing he asks in judging a chart is recognising the phase of the planets according speed.

It's not easy, but traditional astrologers gave a lot of importance to heliacal phase - for example Lilly in the famous list of planetary temperaments in the assessment of temperament; there the different phase changes completely the nature of planet.

margherita

Eddy wrote:In transits I noticed several times that the period of the planetary station when the planet is still close to (the aspect to) a natal point has quite an effect. This can make a Mars or Venus transit to quite a significant one. Perhaps I'm projecting the transits issue too much to natal charts issues but I think that's possible.

You are quite right Eddy. I have also observed [for a number of years] the stations of planets and their degrees falling on radical or progressed charts; I have mainly focused my attention on conjunctions and oppositions occuring at 1? (degree) orb or less since they seem to be the strongest contact, although other aspects might also respond to these stationary transits, so perhaps the square might be included.

Each year I make a list of the degrees of stations and keep that around when preparing work for a client's chart; I have astrologer Pat Geisler to thank for that tip, it's been a very useful and reliable tool.


james

We understand ,Planets revolve around the Sun in an elliptical orbit..they have their Time-Periods.
Astronmically , does their speed varies?
Or is it like against a backdrop of a constellation when we observe Planetary motions, from our Earth , depending upon on their distance from the Sun , it apparently look to us that Planets are slowing down or increasing their speeds...(relatively )..but their astronomical speed changes negligibly??

Arihant wrote:We understand ,Planets revolve around the Sun in an elliptical orbit..they have their Time-Periods.
Astronmically , does their speed varies?
Or is it like against a backdrop of a constellation when we observe Planetary motions, from our Earth , depending upon on their distance from the Sun , it apparently look to us that Planets are slowing down or increasing their speeds...(relatively )..but their astronomical speed changes negligibly??

I hate astronomy, but to me the retrograde motion and all the moving faster and slower and stations are apparent, not real.

Let's ask to Eddy, where you are?

margherita

You were right all along , Gjiada
From wiki , I found:
((The basis for the modern understanding of orbits was first formulated by Johannes Kepler whose results are summarised in his three laws of planetary motion. First, he found that the orbits of the planets in our solar system are elliptical, not circular (or epicyclic), as had previously been believed, and that the sun is not located at the center of the orbits, but rather at one focus.[5] Second, he found that the orbital speed of each planet is not constant, as had previously been thought, but rather that the speed of the planet depends on the planet's distance from the sun. And third, Kepler found a universal relationship between the orbital properties of all the planets orbiting the sun. For each planet, the cube of the planet's distance from the sun, measured in astronomical units (AU), is equal to the square of the planet's orbital period, measured in Earth years. Jupiter, for example, is approximately 5.2 AU from the sun and its orbital period is 11.86 Earth years. So 5.2 cubed equals 11.86 squared, as predicted.
While the planetary bodies do have elliptical orbits about the Sun, the eccentricity of the orbits is often not large. A circle has an eccentricity of zero, Earth's orbit's eccentricity is 0.0167 meaning that the ratio of its semi-minor (b) to semi-major axis (a) is 99.99%. Mercury has the largest eccentricity of the planets with an eccentricity of 0.2056, b/a=97.86%

As two objects orbit each other, the periapsis is that point at which the two objects are closest to each other and the apoapsis is that point at which they are the farthest from each other. (More specific terms are used for specific bodies. For example, perigee and apogee are the lowest and highest parts of an Earth orbit, respectively.)
In the elliptical orbit, the center of mass of the orbiting-orbited system will sit at one focus of both orbits, with nothing present at the other focus. As a planet approaches periapsis, the planet will increase in speed, or velocity. As a planet approaches apoapsis, the planet will decrease in velocity.))
***********************

So Tanit query was with real variation in the planetary speeds , else She would have specifically/directly asked the effect of Stationary Planet in a Natal...

So Tanit query was with real variation in the planetary speeds , else She would have specifically/directly asked the effect of Stationary Planet in a Natal...

Yes, I did not mean to ask about stationary/retro planets, as that is something that is often discussed. I did also wonder at the Sun's speed too though (for example, I have a "slow" Sun), not just the varying speed of the planets along the elliptic.

I have heard about the theory that Moon/Mercury fast/slow, occidental/oriental relates to intellect, but, other than that, I have heard basically nothing by way of interpretation of the speeds of the other planets, other than it being an accidentaly debility.

Tanit333 wrote:

So Tanit query was with real variation in the planetary speeds , else She would have specifically/directly asked the effect of Stationary Planet in a Natal...

Yes, I did not mean to ask about stationary/retro planets, as that is something that is often discussed. .

Ha Ha, I suspected that..thats why , I tried to clarify this in my first post in this thread , but I guess you didn't want to play spoilsport then and choose not to answer... ..though I kept persistenly asking it Gjaida...

Maybe if in the ephemeredes the information can be given about Increase in speeding phase of planet with sign"+ "; maxm , while deleraring speed can be given with sign"-" and Minm. for the least magnitude of the orbital velocity for a planet...Then we can keep this in mid and over a period of time could establish some trends.

IMO ,Astrologer Juan Revilla can certainly shed some more light on this very interesting topic.

I have seen his work on "Orbital Paradigm:
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1222199368/0#0

I shall raise this question in that thread at astrodienst..hope you shall not mind..and hopefully we would get some insights from more knowledgeable ones..

Thank you, for clarifying and more so especially for coming up with an excellent topic, which could be matter of further research..

Interesting link to see at:
http://www.lunarplanner.com/HCpages/SynodicCycle.html

((Synodic Astrology;Synodic Cycles and Planetary Retrogrades>>Cycles of Growth in Consciousness.
Planetary Synodic Cycles are cycles that occur between one planet and another. They start when two planets align in their orbits, when looking from the Sun. "Synod" means place of meeting. Although synods occur with all planets, when we say a Venus synodic cycle or a Mars synodic cycle, we are referring to those cycles that occur with the Earth and the planet. If we are referring to a synodic cycle created by two planets other than Earth, then we clarify that by saying a Mars-Juptier synodic cycle or a Venus-Jupiter synodic cycle, etc.
The Earth-planet star alignments (looking from the sun / heliocentric view) reveal the nature of the specific synodic cycle theme. That theme will unfold until the two planets align again, marking the completion of the synodic cycle and the beginning of the next one. The synodic theme can be thought of as expressing through the Earth-planet relationship (much like the nature of their conjunction) and then unfolding in a cycle of growth in human consciousness through a progression of aspects.

Because the Earth and each planet orbits the sun at different rates of speed, the duration of the synodic cycle between the Earth and each planet is unique as is the location in the ecliptic where each alignment occurs))
*****
Another highly recommended book on this subject of effects due to planets' synodic cylce is : "An Astrological Study of Psychological Complexes" by Dane Rudhyar.

Arihant wrote:The basis for the modern understanding of orbits was first formulated by Johannes Kepler whose results are summarised in his three laws of planetary motion. First, he found that the orbits of the planets in our solar system are elliptical, not circular (or epicyclic), as had previously been believed, and that the sun is not located at the center of the orbits, but rather at one focus.[5] Second, he found that the orbital speed of each planet is not constant, as had previously been thought, but rather that the speed of the planet depends on the planet's distance from the sun

Yes that's what Kepler discovered Arihant.
Just imagine what impact that must have had those days. The circle being an almost divine expression motion of the universe, hence the epicycle theory in Ptolemy's system to explain the strange movements.

Here I found some animation pictures of Mars retrograde, first how we see it from Earth, then according to Ptolemy's theory and Copernicus' heliocentric theory. It explains the retrograde movement in a different way.
http://www.lasalle.edu/~smithsc/Astrono ... ograd.html

The next one shows Kepler's first law. Set the eccentricity at the highest, then the difference in speed between close to the Sun and furthest is very apparent. http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animat ... epler.html

Here are phases of Venus http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classe ... fVenus.htm
and loads of other astronomy animations http://www.educypedia.be/education/spacejava.htm

I didn't find an inner planet animation but looking at the Mars Copernican animation as the observer would be on Mars looking at the Earth gives the same effect.
Perhaps this of Venus is nice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDk9t9b6 ... 05&index=0

Although it seems dry stuff I love astronomy (that's then a point we disagree on Margherita ). Here is a video of a pirouette of an ice skater on ice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DuuPAAgSVY You will see that the closer the skater puts her leg and arm to the center of rotation the faster she turns. To illustrate something else here's another amazing video of an ice skating pair in a championship, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7W7tDl8 ... 00&index=7
The heavier male holds the lady and turns her around him. However you see that he's not in the center of rotation but the skating pair both turn around a center which is closest to him. This center is called the barycenter. A similar movement we see in the solar system and everywhere in the universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_mass#Animations