Skyscript Astrology Forum

aglaya wrote:So, my questions for everyone who is willing to participate are very simple:
-do you practice any other divination technique (and, of course, which one/s)? and, if you do- why?
Also, an additional question for those of you who do use them is:
-do you switch between astrology and other techniques, use them both, expand your readings that way or search for confirmations (or something else)?

I practice other divinations techniques than astrology:

As far as cards are concerned I mainly use the Waite-Smith Tarot deck [aka Rider-Waite] and the Oracle Belline, a set of 52 cards, 49 of which are ruled by the traditional planets; I do not carry these cards around so if I am asked for a reading while outside my home or office I will use a standard deck of cards (Spades equal the Swords in Tarot, Hearts = Cups, Diamonds = Pentacles and Clubs = Wands) or use a system of numerology to answer questions that do not require the use of a more elaborate tool. This system uses the 22 major arcanas of Tarot and their astrological correspondances [many of which have been devised by Crowley] and also uses the birthdate as background info. Sometimes during a card reading I will use numerology to get more info on a topic.

Methods used with cards are basic:
- a monthly reading that uses 28 cards, 7 for each week (either Belline or Minor arcana of Tarot)
- a yearly reading using the complete Tarot deck distributed in the 12 houses symbolism.

I do not use cards to expand on or search for confirmations from astrology; I mainly use cards when there is no birth hour available or when clients ask for them. I also work with Crowley's deck for personal growth and development. As for numerology, it was convenient when I did radio or tv shows and I still use it for "on the fly" consultations. I occasionally give Tarot/numerology courses, but my main occupation besides consultation is giving astrology classes and workshops.

james

One thing that's been on my mind for quite a while:
It concerns the Waite-Smith Tarot deck - popular. For the majority of people coming into contact with the Tarot it's THE deck (although I do not think that these cards are a work of great art) - and often these people are unaware of the fact that there are further (actually hundreds ) of partly rather different card decks.
Unlike all (?) of the decks the W.S-Tarot (by the way: it's just become 100 years old!) illustrates all the cards -not only the 22 Arcana cards. This certainly was an act of interpretation. A great number of people (including myself) can't imagine (e.g.) the nine of swords without immediately imagining the nine swords dangerously hovering about that woman obviously in deep desperation.
Now: was the illustration of Ms Smith possibly an act of total subjective interpretation? An interpretation that finally created certain standards that we stick to? Did she in a way actually create the minor arcana - and parts of the major arcana too - e.g. card VI - by the way a most subjective (possibly doubtful) way of interpretation. Was it her that actually formulated the meaning of that card - and of many other ones? How much autonomy is included there?

Pamela Coleman Smith, an English artist with connections to Waite's (Rosicrucian) esoteric lodge, drew the images of both the Major and the Minor Arcana according to Waite's specific criteria regarding the symbols involved. Waite's symbolism in turn represents a mixture of Rosicrucian and Hermetic concepts significantly influenced by the Golden Dawn, of which Society Waite was a long-time member (he later formed his own mystical Christianity oriented Rosicrucian lodge)

The characteristic outlines of the symbols represented on the Major Arcana cards in the Rider-Waite deck have their origins in Tarot decks dating to the early 1700's (at the latest).

Thanks. I didn't know about the Rosicrucian background of that deck. But I immediately felt that there are definite parallels.
Apart from that there exists a Golden Dawn Tarot deck which bears hardly any resemblance to the Waite/Smith-deck. Quite different - with no illustration of the minor arcana. As far as I can see (or feel) the W/S deck is much closer to the Rosicrucian tradition than the one of the Golden Dawn. nevertehless the G.D.deck is most remarkable:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/go ... ndex.shtml

Strange fact that the greater part of astrologers use additional divination techniques. Might be interesting to know why. Insufficiency of astrological evidence ?

The Golden Dawn Tarot deck originated in the 1980's, symbolisms used were taken from Golden Dawn teachings as understood by the deck's designer (Robert Wang, assisted by the late Israel Regaride). However, in stating this I am not implying inferiority of this modern deck in any sense.

I think the Whare-Ra is the oldest Golden Dawn deck - done in New Zealand in the 1920s if memory serves - a google should bring it up, along with pictures.

Olivia is correct about the first Golden Dawn temple deck: however, this deck never moved outside temple doors, and was not published for general distribution. It's Major Arcana outlines are very similar to those of the Marseilles Tarot.

It's useful or even necessary to know what the tradition of one's deck is connected with. I think a aconnection with the Marseilles Tarot can never go wrong. A lot of strange stuff available (and in use ?), e.g.:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/alcohol/

Thanks.

Interesting question and answers too. I hadn't appreciated there were so many astrologers using Tarot here.

My longest association is with the I Ching which I have used for approaching 25 years ( I started very young!). I have also worked with Tarot and Runes. Yet to try out Geomancy but the recommendations here seem worth following up. Personally, I think working with different systems can lead to interesting cross fertilisation of ideas.

Lately my interest in Tarot has blossomed ( its tends to wax and wane a bit) and I have been very interested in studying the astrological links to the Major and Minor Arcana.

In the English speaking world many Tarotists adopt the Golden Dawn or Aleister Crowley approach to the astrological associations of the Major and Minor Arcana. Personally though I have many personal problems with that approach. Regarding the Major Arcana its interesting that Anthony Louis cites a competing Latin American system of astrological associations in his book Tarot: Plain and Simple. I guess that might be coming from sources like Eliphas Levi and Papus. However, the approach I find closest to my own thinking is that of Joanna Watters in her book on Tarot.

Actually there are a number of controversial but thought provoking discussions on the astrological associations of the Major and Minor Arcana.
In particular:

1 The Astrological associations of the Major Arcana by Planet, sign or element

2 The elemental association of the suits. The GD assigned Swords to Air and Wands to Fire but many Tarot packs reverse these associations. A beautiful example of this latter approach is Nigel Jackson's 'Medieval Enchantment' deck.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/ni ... ndex.shtml

Any views from members here?

3 The Modality of the Court Cards. In particular Knight/Queen/King. A common approach is Knight=mutable/Queen=fixed/King=Cardinal. However one often sees this approach reversed with the Knights cardinal and the Kings mutable.

Another topic that I am planning to research more is the pre- GD meanings for the Minor Arcana 'pip' cards. Pamela Coleman Smith's artwork ( or its inumerable later variants) is ingrained in many Tarotists minds. I would appreciate any thoughts or leads from other members who have already explored this issue.

I suspect the answers lie outside the English speaking tradition as the GD/Waite-Smith deck approach of figured pip cards has been such a resounding success it has largely swept prior tradtition before it.
I am therefore interested in continental Tarot card divinatory associations based on older decks such as the Tarot of Marseilles or IJJ Swiss.

A good start I think is reading older non-English sources such as Levi, Papus and Wirth. However, sometimes the astrological links seem quite strange. For example Levi's system assigned astrological associations to the Major Arcana only after first linking cards through the Qaballah and Tree of Life symbolism. This leads to some quite bizarre linkages from an astrological perspective.

Mark

Mark,

I'd recommend Mystical Origins of the Tarot: From Ancient Roots to Modern Usage by Paul Huson, for some pre-GD tarot associations. Pretty interesting book.

Hi GR,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes I was checking out that book on Amazon just last night! It does look invaluable for people like myself that want to gain a clearer understanding of Tarot history. Its definitely on my click list.

Mark

Ron Decker's History of the Occult Tarot is another good one, and Robert Place has a book out on Tarot, mostly concentrating on the RWS and making a strong argument for neo-Platonism.

Jean-Michel David occasionally does a correspondence class on the Marseille deck - he's in Australia. Fascinating stuff, like was the Empress originally a portrait of Isabella? That kind of thing. As well as a lot of neat historical facts surrounding the creation of the Marseille.

I don't believe there was any original astrological assignment to tarot - it was a Christian card game, also used to create poetry (there may be a Petrarch link in there). I used to have a repro of the Visconti, which I adored, but that got lost. It's still available and worth your while if you're into historical tarot.

I'm pretty sure that Eteilla was the first to come up with astrological assignments for tarot cards. There are some pretty good articles at Villa Revak on that, and how much the GD followed him, even though Waite claimed not to. http://villarevak.org/astro/main.html