In think its reasonable to say that in astrology powerful events require powerful indicators. The astrologer already knows that there might be, say, a Saturn-Pluto square in ingress and lunation charts worldwide, and can quickly determine the regions of the world where it would be angular or otherwise prominent. There's no need to do charts for each country individually and see what you come up with. One starts with strong configurations strongly placed ? just like for desirable electional charts. A well-organized astrologer should be able to proceed fairly successfully.

Let's face it, mundane astrology really doesn't work. But we truly want to believe in it. These post-event analyses have been going on for years and undoubtedly will continue to do so. . . because we want to believe. Meanwhile, mundane astrological prediction is getting nowhere. The obvious is staring right at us.

Kirk: Let's face it, mundane astrology really doesn't work.

I'm sorry to find you so unhappy. Mundane astrology is such a wide field: Earthquakes, weatherpatterns, epedemics, draught, political and financial shifts, etc. One of the problems is that it is hard to know what to focus on, where to focus and how to get the right focus. Earthquakes are happening all the time everywhere. Fortunately, many of them occur in scarcely populated places and may occur at such great distance below the Earth's surface that they do not cause any major damage at ground level.

Who was focusing on Haiti? I certainly wasn't - but I was puzzling over the fact that the recent eclipse maps didn't appear to be targeting regular areas of tension. An even now, in the midst of the catastrophy, I am more overhwelmed by the magnitude of the tradegy than the need to reach out an take a Ph.d. on it - in my spare time. Tension - do we understand it? How much tension is required for an event to break the surface and is tension qualitive and the surface equally susceptible to pressures in all areas?

So the scientists predicted the earthquake did they? Well, scientists are saying things all the time - so they are bound to get one or two right once in a while...

One of the great things with the forum is that people are recording what is going on and this may leave traces that someone else may find useful, or encourage someone to make further studies. I wish we could spend more time on studying the Saros and initiating eclipses. Maybe a workgroup will be formed some time in the future and we can work through some more of the founding charts. I do not blame anyone for not predicting the earthquake in Haiti, but it is a pity that none of the scientists that saw the tension on the build said: "Hey, come and join our team. Come work with us and see what you can come up with."

One idea is to try to relate the current earthquake with other similar events of recent happening, or try to work out if there is any repeating pattern if further events should reoccur in the near future. Unfortunately, observing time connections is hard to spot - however, some observations I did in the 90's did suggest some seismic events moved in families. Animals and bird also seemed to be receptable to tensions in nature in another manner than apparent to Mankind. Or maybe these birds and animals are simply hooked on the alternative - and are psychic?

Animals and bird also seemed to be receptable to tensions in nature in another manner than apparent to Mankind. Or maybe these birds and animals are simply hooked on the alternative - and are psychic?

Maybe the true purpose of astrological technique is to induce an intense meditative state through performing an intentionally ordered and thought-out procedure. It could be that the most prophetic astrologer, due to intense concentration and focus, passes through and loosens his or her rational mental grip, entering a state of consciousness more like the animals who aren't fretting about overlooked declinations, midpoints and lots.

It looks again like the modern approach of placing techniques before those pesky philosophical/religious matters. Astrology for the common man.

Suggestions:
+extensive consideration of fixed stars and starry constellations (all 48, not only the zodiacal) when found longitudinally conjunct or parallel/conta-parallel (ecliptic declination, not celestial latitude) with planets, angle degrees, Parts, and possibly also with the cusps/sensitive degrees of other houses in addition to the angular ones;
+extensive use and delineation of the Pauline dodeketemoria of planets and angle degrees, possibly also of Parts;
+extensive use and consideration of planetary antiscia, noting especially planetary, Parts and fixed star conjunctions and oppositions to these points;
+extensive application of appropriately selected Parts, giving special consideration to the places and conditions of their dispositors (=Part Significators);
+pay much attention to Lunar astrology, giving consideration to the ramifications of the testimonies derived from this source;
+consideration of the symbolic indications of the Planetary Hour operative at the time of the mundane chart;
+pay a great deal of attention to the sign + house placement of the Dragon's Tail, also noting any planet, fixed star or Part in close conjunction or parallel with it (also note any planet in opposition to it);
+if using ingresses as the primary time for erecting the mundane map, follow the point of view adopted (in the end) by C.E.O. Carter and give the Capricorn ingress primacy over all others as the initiating ingress of each new astrological year;
+for best results use Whole Sign chart construction;
+make use of simple, symbolic Pauline profection in predictive timing.

Kirk wrote:Astrology for the common man.

That would be you and me, Kirk!

We could form a group of 5-6 people and start a project that we expect to take one to two years with the aim of warning one decent earthquake. There has to be a budget so people can travel around and meet, and then of course there is hotel expences.

Animals and bird also seemed to be receptable to tensions in nature in another manner than apparent to Mankind. Or maybe these birds and animals are simply hooked on the alternative - and are psychic?

There will be no dibbing into the bird seed as long as the project lasts!

Indirectly we profit from the resources they get. NASA JPL continuously improve planetary orbit calculations. Looking at the JPL site I just read that a tiny asteroid flew by the Earth last week: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/asteroidwatch/n ... l&rst=2443 . Glad I didn't stick my head out of the window then .

Apart from the difficulties concerned with predictions, I still think it's worth to look at mundane astrology. After all, it was the first kind of astrology that existed for centuries until astrology was applied to birthcharts of individuals.

Let's face it, mundane astrology really doesn't work. But we truly want to believe in it. These post-event analyses have been going on for years and undoubtedly will continue to do so. . . because we want to believe. Meanwhile, mundane astrological prediction is getting nowhere. The obvious is staring right at us.

The same could be said of natal astrology. Mundane astrology of non-human natural events is maybe even more suitable for research because then we don't have to take into account the whims of human nature and humans' social settings. I don't want to be boasting here but I think I was close with my predictions of NW-Europe's warm spring and NW-Europe's cold December.

Maybe a workgroup will be formed some time in the future and we can work through some more of the founding charts.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to collect predictions made in the Mundane section in one thread? A sort of mundane databank of astrological predictions for several kinds of events listed under different headings (weather, earthquakes, politics), or just with the links to the threads where the predictions were made, with the remark if the predictions turned out to be correct or incorrect. Everyone can use their preferred system (classical, modern, sidereal, tropical, midpoints, aspects etc.) and we can compare.

Animals and bird also seemed to be receptable to tensions in nature in another manner than apparent to Mankind. Or maybe these birds and animals are simply hooked on the alternative - and are psychic?

Maybe the true purpose of astrological technique is to induce an intense meditative state through performing an intentionally ordered and thought-out procedure. It could be that the most prophetic astrologer, due to intense concentration and focus, passes through and loosens his or her rational mental grip, entering a state of consciousness more like the animals who aren't fretting about overlooked declinations, midpoints and lots.

It looks again like the modern approach of placing techniques before those pesky philosophical/religious matters. Astrology for the common man.

I sure believe in the meditative state idea, but this could then also be used as an argument against astrology. And if so, why all this painstaking learning of astrology techniques to be sure that the whole chart is read and nothing indispensable is omitted?

I'll keep on trying with the Keplerian method of using only aspects and try to find other explanations when similar aspects lead to different results. Perhaps incomplete but much easier to work with.

Talking about animals, don't the Chinese use dogs to predict earthquakes? I read somewhere that dogs (and other animals) feel earthquakes coming some hours or a day earlier.

Thinking about mundane v. natal astrology it suddenly came into my mind that being occupied with natal astrology (or your own chart) could lead away from the 'mundane intuition' that animals still seem to have. I assume that animals keep themselves less busy with themselves than we humans with our troubles do.

I also think that Eddy's warning of the especially cold December deserves some attention. His instincts were spot on, and he called this well in advance, with comments such as:

I believe we might expect a rather cold december with strong winds and 'dry' snow, especially around Christmas. I think the cold will stay a bit (but changeable, typical 'lingering' weathertype) during the period of Venus' superior conjunction of mid January and without the winds.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4922

That prediction applied to most of Europe, so well done Eddy.

BTW, I've heard from friends in Southern Australia that the weather has been no less extreme for them. Whilst we have been freezing, they have been melting, with record temperatures of 43?C.

I sure believe in the meditative state idea, but this could then also be used as an argument against astrology. And if so, why all this painstaking learning of astrology techniques to be sure that the whole chart is read and nothing indispensable is omitted?

A very good question. Why such a high anxiety fear of omitting something? It sounds like the rational mind frantically craving the control it so badly wants and believes it needs. 'I'm all for the meditative state, but what about . . . ?' Those birds tweeting in the bushes are looking (and sounding) better all the time. You appear to state it as a given that we should be afraid of ? and avoid ? arguments against astrology.

Thinking about mundane v. natal astrology it suddenly came into my mind that being occupied with natal astrology (or your own chart) could lead away from the 'mundane intuition' that animals still seem to have. I assume that animals keep themselves less busy with themselves than we humans with our troubles do.

Yes. It looks like another branch of astrology to step away from in order to let life in.

Thanks Deb, I didn't know about Australia's heatwave. So perhaps it's better to look for excesses in weather rather than for specific types of weather.

'I'm all for the meditative state, but what about . . . ?' Those birds tweeting in the bushes are looking (and sounding) better all the time. You appear to state it as a given that we should be afraid of ? and avoid ? arguments against astrology.

I'm not sure if I understand you well Kirk, but if I interpret you correctly I think I don't feel being afraid of or avoiding arguments against astrology but the meditative state issue could mean that reading a chart would rather resemble a kind of psychometry than the technics of looking at planetary positions. It could still be a combination of both though. By the way that's why I'd prefer making charts with an ephemeris and a pocket calculator when making a chart for someone.

Now to the earthquake, here's Kepler on earthquakes, (I made a part bold).

Kepler wrote:Thesis 70
However, universal and perceptible or entirely new earthquakes seem not to be indicated by signs from the heavens in the fact that Saturn and Jupiter are not configurated through the sky this year; but this is merely one and the most general cause and sign of great quakes. For in sublunar affairs there are in addition some other more particular and real things whose foresight does not rightfully concern the astrologer. Thus, consider that earthquake which last September in 1601 greatly shook the country all along the Rhine and the neighboring regions, for it is said that it was felt even in Insubria. I state this not from astrology because an earthquake is not at thing pertaining to the stars, but from an examination of the world and of the seasons, from which it is to be seen that movements of armed men and minds usually follow earthquakes.

I'don't really understand what he means in the bold part. Does he say here that earthquakes can't be predicted by astrology or by more signs than astrology alone? In the beginning he states that Jupiter-Saturn configurations are sign of great quakes.

I had a look in the ephemeris and saw that less than 24 hours before the earthquake, 11 January at 22:30 UT, Jupiter (28?39'Aquarius) and Saturn (4?39' Libra) were in 144? aspect, a biquintile, one of Kepler's new aspects. Moon was in 14?37'Sagittarius and close to the point that would be at 16?39' Sagittarius, quintile to both Jupiter and Saturn. Some 4 hours later the Moon was there and the chart of the 12th at 2:30UT for Port-au-Prince shows Moon 1,5? before the IC.

Perhaps a bit farfetched and the chance of finding this would be low so this is a bit hindsight astrology. Moreover, I've often had my doubts about the effectivity of (bi)quintiles in transits, and the more you use the more you find, but it's still a peculiar configuration.

I was going to contribute to Andrew Bevan's anticipated astro-seismology study group by compiling a list of "Earthquake Stars" from a survey of the available fixed star literature. To my great surprise I found only one star so designated. I did find several stars connected with "disasters", but only one connected with earthquakes!

That unique "earthquake" star is Sheratan (in the constellation of Aries)
Note: it is no longer unique: thanks to research by Tham (see below) our list now grows to 2 "earthquake stars:

+Alkaid
+Sheratan

(Sheratan was Parallel with Mars, in the 2nd house-"under-the-earth",
at the moment the Haiti earthquake struck)

dr. farr wrote:I was going to contribute to Andrew Bevan's
anticipated astro-seismology study group by compiling a list of
"Earthquake Stars" from a survey of the available fixed star
literature. To my great surprise I found only one star so designated.
I did find several stars connected with "disasters", but only one
connected with earthquakes!

That unique "earthquake" star is Sheratan (in the constellation of Aries)

(Sheratan was Parallel with Mars, in the 2nd house-"under-the-earth",
at the moment the Haiti earthquake struck)

Alkaid, at the tip of the highly malefic Great Bear constellation.

I have observed its prominence in several event and natal charts.

In the event chart for this Haiti quake, if you use Astrodienst's
server and input 42355, the number for the asteroid Typhon, the
Greek mythical 100-headed serpentine monster which scared off
all the gods, then fought with and almost defeated Zeus (Jupiter
himself, the planet most connected with earthquakes), you will find
it exactly conjunct Alkaid at 26 Virgo.

Alkaid is also known as Benetnash, from its Arabic name.
The relocated chart for Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood shooter,
had Pluto conjunct this star.

" ..... many human lives are to be mourned. "

" In an important position in a mundane map, Benetnash will
claim human lives in calamities such as mine accidents, collapse
of houses and bridges, mountain slides, earth tremors and
catastrophes caused by weather. "

" Alkaid was known as "the destroyer of nations" by Islamic astrologers. "

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Alkaid.html


MIzar :

" ...... and mass calamities. "

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Mizar.html


Virtually all the stars in Ursa Major are malefic, of which Dubhe,
at 15 Leo, the so-called "worst degree of the zodiac", is the most
prominent (conjunct Hitler's Saturn). Dubhe may certainly feature
in event charts for catastrophes and other major disasters, as
well as natal charts, of which I have observed quite a few.

There are a few others which do not directly mention "earthquakes"
but "mass calamities, explosions, disasters, etc." which may also be
relevant and can be used.

I did not come across Alkaid in my "earthquake star" search-thanks fpr the information. Dubhe is among the small group of "disaster" stars I found in my search, which list I shall soon post (interesting that in the quake chart Mars-already Parallel with Sheratan-is posited @ 16 degrees Leo, longitudinally conjunct Dubhe) The stars are-I believe-the too often missing links when trying to determine hidden, underlying yet potent influences. Thank you, Tham, for revealing your investigations!