Tom wrote:

This is why the joys of the planets are for the most part where there is no exaltation, because in such cases they don't have to share power.

The joys of the planets are in houses, not signs. What am I missing here?

Tom

There are a number of joy conditions. The one you're probably familiar with is:

Mercury joys in 1st.
Moon in 3rd.
Venus in 5th.
Mars in 6th.
Jupiter in 11th.
Saturn in 12th.
Sun in 9th.

About the above, Schmidt makes the note that the joys of the planets match their sect where the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn joy above the horizon and Mars, Venus and the Moon joy below (in their own halves so to speak). Mercury common to both sects joys at twilight (ascendant) and because Mercury likes tying things up in the air (suspense) matching the rising condition of the place.

There is also:

Saturn prefers Aquarius to Capricorn
Jupiter prefers Sag to Pisces
Mars prefers Scorpio to Aries
Sun has 1 domicile
Venus prefers Taurus to Libra
Mercury prefers Virgo to Gemini
Moon has 1 domicile

This second set of joys are because of sect and exaltation where Mars keeps power to himself (in Scorpio), but is obligated to lift up the Sun in exaltation in Aries. Mars is of the nocturnal sect and Sun is diurnal and Mars hates doing this. Saturn is also diurnal and lifts up Mars of the opposite sect in Capricorn, so prefers Aquarius. Jupiter lifts up Venus in Pisces, so prefers Sag of the diurnal sect. The Sun lifts up no one (is King) and has no need to cooperate. Venus disliking this, being the most cooperative planet (she exalts 2 planets while the Sun does no one), decides to make the Sun fall in her diurnal domicile (Libra) by lifting up his enemy (Saturn), as light is always opposed to darkness. Mercury being truly common to both sects, avoids the power struggle and remains neutral, lifting up himself in Virgo. The Moon lifts up Jupiter and Venus lifts up the Moon in exaltation. They are of the same sect and cooperate and Venus is glad to do so (which is in her nature). The Moon being feminine, lifts up Jupiter in the place of the cosmic breath.

All based on Schmidt's translations... an examination of the politics of heaven. Note Valens, in one of his examples uses the Moon as "the lady of Taurus" as if it was domicile lord [1]. In that example, Venus was in Aries and the Moon was in Aquarius culminating with respect to the lot of fortune. Venus is in aversion to Taurus so is unable to fulfill it's role as domicile lord (oikodektor) and the Moon takes it over as the true "lord" of that place.

1. Valens Anthology Book II, part 1, pg 35. Translated by Robert Schmidt

GR wrote:

Tom wrote:

This is why the joys of the planets are for the most part where there is no exaltation, because in such cases they don't have to share power.

The joys of the planets are in houses, not signs. What am I missing here?

Tom

Actually I think Curtis misspoke. If you look at the Thema Mundi, with the 1st sign being Cancer, all the signs with exaltations, except those exalting Saturn and Mars, are the places of the Joys.

Nope. This is what Schmidt said. While what you said is true I'm referring to a different schema.

GR wrote:

Tom wrote:

Actually I think Curtis misspoke. If you look at the Thema Mundi, with the 1st sign being Cancer, all the signs with exaltations, except those exalting Saturn and Mars, are the places of the Joys.

I'm sure he did, and I know nothing of the Thema Mundi, but if we begin with Cancer as the first sign, the 5th sign would be Scorpio. Nothing is exalted in Scorpio, but Venus joys in the 5th.

True, and nothing (except maybe the nodes) is exalted in Gemini & Sagittarius, and there Saturn and Mars are in their Joys. That those 3 have their joys in signs without exaltation is related somehow though I can't say I've figured it out. That Venus is the domicile lady of Saturn's exalted sign is part of it, I think.

There's more here than meets the eye - pay attention... This is a theory of why the nodes are exalted in Gemini and Sagittarius:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-file ... astro.html

Clelia Romano wrote:Hi Curtis!

I did not get your point here, though:

but not through a weighting, but through sect and the actual positions of the planets being able to testify or being called to witness for a given place

Can you please explain how the sect is used to give testimony?

Schmidt likens the concept of sect to that of belonging to a political party - sort of like democrats and republicans in the USA. The aspectual relations between the planets and the places / offices / temples they are responsible for are what drives which planets have control of a given place. See my second post above about Valens's example as proof, how he resorts to the Moon because Venus was in aversion to Taurus.

Tom wrote:The joys are a bit of a mystery as is Saturn's exaltation in Libra. John Frawley wrote a couple of articles in the first two issues of the Astrologer's Apprentice about the joys and he related them to the story of the Fall in Genesis and to Milton's Paradise Lost. It was great reading. They can be downloaded in pdf format at
johnfrawley.com

In the Thema Mundi, Libra / the scales is the 4th house, the place of judgment, where the soul is weighed against a feather on a Balance according to Schmidt.

GR wrote: True, and nothing (except maybe the nodes) is exalted in Gemini & Sagittarius, and there Saturn and Mars are in their Joys. That those 3 have their joys in signs without exaltation is related somehow though I can't say I've figured it out. That Venus is the domicile lady of Saturn's exalted sign is part of it, I think.

It is not in the character of malefics to enjoy seeing someone praised and lifted into a higher status, but the malefics do enjoy dragging us down, trapping us - Saturn does this by inviting hubris, trapping you in the flesh after passing through the waters of Lethe, keeping you connected to the world without spiritual insight. Mars helps you leave the world (Paul's thorn in the flesh that brought him closer to spirit). The 6th is where the principle of the Sun is elevated, whereas the 12th is where the Moon is elevated (North node). I wrote an article about this on my site about a month ago (see above link).

Clelia Romano wrote:Hello:-)

I would like to know if someone has anything to say about a situation that: the Sun is in Virgo at 12 degrees, Mars is in Virgo at 17 degrees and Mercury is in Virgo at 21 degrees.

The Ascendant is Aries, the 8th house is in Scorpio and the planets quoted above are in the 6th.

Hello Clelia,

As usually there are two mainstreams here, one one side there are astrologers who wrote that the malefic planet combust with the Sun ameliorate its malefic virtue, because it's weaker, others said that a maleficent planet with the Sun worsen its malice.

In every case please notice that here is the planet which is setting to the Sun, it did its heliacal setting and going to the conjunction: this is the worst side where it can be.

And in Virgo it has no chariot, so I vote for being nasty.

margherita

margherita wrote:

Clelia Romano wrote:Hello:-)

I would like to know if someone has anything to say about a situation that: the Sun is in Virgo at 12 degrees, Mars is in Virgo at 17 degrees and Mercury is in Virgo at 21 degrees.

The Ascendant is Aries, the 8th house is in Scorpio and the planets quoted above are in the 6th.

Hello Clelia,

As usually there are two mainstreams here, one one side there are astrologers who wrote that the malefic planet combust with the Sun ameliorate its malefic virtue, because it's weaker, others said that a maleficent planet with the Sun worsen its malice.

In every case please notice that here is the planet which is setting to the Sun, it did its heliacal setting and going to the conjunction: this is the worst side where it can be.

And in Virgo it has no chariot, so I vote for being nasty.

margherita

I agree. Mars is in bad shape here (on the impious side) and while Mercury is in chariot in Virgo, Mercury has the nasty habit of imitating the planets configured with him (Mars in this case) which probably serves to amplify the frenzy of Mars.

I agree with the other posters that there is a big difference whether or not a combust planet approaches or leaves the Sun. Here it approaches so it is bad. Leaving the Sun not as bad.

Now what kind of bad? Zoller taught that combust planets signify things/people which are hidden, or people who are sick. Since Mars is the Ascendant lord and placed in the 6th of illness, sickness is especially applicable in this case.

Type of illness. Top of the list of Mars/Virgo illnesses are ulcers because this illness combines Mars' heat with the intestinal tract. Other possibilities include exhaustion from overwork, injuries/exhaustion from exercise fanaticism, surgical adhesions from cesarean births, etc., Both Sun and Mars ruled by Mercury/Virgo gives a busy-body fanaticism to the configuration. An overworked accountant?

I would like to delve deeper into exactly how combust planets approaching the Sun are 'bad.' Studying this first with Venus approaching the Sun using the Mayan approach on the Venus synodic cycle, Venus is highly excitable when it approaches the sun, for example, sexual excitability, or said another way, the inability to exercise sexual restraint. The phrase 'like a moth to a flame' is applicable.

The same concept applies to other planets including Mars. Combust planets approaching the Sun appear to lose all rationality and cannot 'help themselves' from acting out their most raw impulses. In this case, there is an 'inevitability' of Martian actions and a 'higher probability' that the individual will manifest Mars/Virgo illnesses despite having been warned about them.

I don't have my mundane references at hand but if I remember correctly Abu Mashar states that a combust Mars is one sign of war, echoing the inevitability of Martian actions just mentioned. As an example, refer to the 7 Aug 1940 Jupiter-Saturn waxing square (1st of three) which features a combust Mars in Leo. Leo the sign of Gaul, or modern France/Belgium. Here a significator of the inevitability of WWII in my opinion.

zoidsoft wrote:

GR wrote:

Tom wrote: The joys of the planets are in houses, not signs. What am I missing here?

Tom

Actually I think Curtis misspoke. If you look at the Thema Mundi, with the 1st sign being Cancer, all the signs with exaltations, except those exalting Saturn and Mars, are the places of the Joys.

Nope. This is what Schmidt said. While what you said is true I'm referring to a different schema.

You know I might be confusing this with that stuff about the triplicities. Now I have to see if I can remember this or not.

Hello Margherita:

As usually there are two mainstreams here, one one side there are astrologers who wrote that the malefic planet combust with the Sun ameliorate its malefic virtue, because it's weaker, others said that a maleficent planet with the Sun worsen its malice

.

Yes, I know. But my question on combustion with malefics concerns not only the malefic and his strenght, but also if the Sun himself is afflicted by the conjunction with a malefic. If the Moon would be afflicted by Mars, why the Sun will not? If the answer is positive the houses/signs ruled by the Sun, i.e. Aries and Leo would be afflicted.

Clelia