The Shearers strike of January - June 1981 at Barcaldine QLD saw in the 'starting' point of the Australian Labour Party. There is somewhere a chart with a place 'under the Tree of Wisdom at Barcaldine' that I did have but cant locate now. Waltzing Matilda was written at this time by Banjo Patterson.

Hi Julie,

Interesting. I would have assumed the party would have started up in more populous territories like NSW or Victoria. Just goes to show you cant make assumptions.

Its seems that the idea the first Labor party meeting occured under the 'Tree of Wisdom at Barcaldine' has recently been revealed to be a myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Kn ... Australia)

This is from Wikipedia:

The role of the famed Tree of Knowledge recognised as the birth of the ALP has been confirmed as mere myth by new research conducted in 2009 by Historians Peter and Sheila Forrest, who spent nine months of intensive research on the subject.

The historians that were commissioned by Barcaldine Regional Council say there is no evidence shearers even met under the Outback Queensland ghost gum during the strike of 1891.

Meeting records of shearers striking for better conditions show they were held at the main strike camp near Barcaldine but none said they met at or near the tree.

Former federal politician, Queensland ALP state secretary and party historian Manfred Cross said the authors were correct and Barcaldine was not the birthplace of the ALP, which was formed after federation.

The latter comment seems initially odd as the Australian Labor party website still claims the party was founded in 1891. This isn't strictly accurate! Indeed the first Labor candidates stood for seats later in 1891. However, this was before Federation.There is no indication these Labor groups were working together as a national political grouping in Australia beyond the Trade Union movement. Even in the first Federal election in 1901 Labour did not fight the election as one unified party but rather a coalition of State Labor parties.

If I was going for a date when the national modern Labor party began I would look to a time after Federation.

http://www.alp.org.au/australian-labor/labor-history/

This is from the above link from the Australian Labor party website:

The Federal Parliamentary Labor Party (the Caucus) first met on 8 May 1901 at Parliament House, Melbourne, following the first federal election for the Commonwealth of Australia.

I plan to work with this data as the best we have available for the Federal Australian Labor party. Here is the chart. In the absence of a more specific time the chart is cast for noon:
An obvious feature of the chart is the heavy focus on Capricorn and Taurus. Some really difficult transits seem to be going on: Uranus and Jupiter (in Aries) squaring the Labour party Moon. Pluto ( in Capricorn) conjunct the Labor party Moon. Neptune (in Aquarius) opposing the Labor party Mars.

However I have found some info at the Queensland State Library site. There is a 'copperplate' handwritten copy of the original Manifesto relating to the beginning of the Australian Party dated September 09, 1982 signed by one Charles Seymour. There is no time or place. I saved each page to My Pictures and can download the 9 pages from here. There is a 'time out' feature however you need to know.

I am a bit confused. Do you mean 1892 here? All the standard histories state the Labor party stood its first candidates to fight seats later in 1891. What exactly are you suggesting here?

I include Brisbane's chart from a reputable Astrologer: September 28, 1824 @ 9.25 am co-ords: 27S28 153E02 Asc 11/51 Sag.

Thanks. What happened then?

Bob Brown's chart: Dec 27, 1944 2.20 pm -10.00 hrs Trunkey Tasmania
03/25 Taurus Asc Moon conj Uranus Gemini Second House. Rating A

Thanks again. A timed chart!

Incidentally, the latest poll puts Labor ahead of the Liberal-National coalition again. Maybe I am going to have to eat predictive humble pie again.

Its still very tight with Labor having 52% over the Liberal-National party coalition on 48% This compares to 50-50 last week. The Greens are showing a very healthy 13% in the poll (this before second preference votes are calculated). If nothing else this kind of result will probably give them the balance of power in the Australian upper house (Senate) as unlike the lower house election this chamber elections are fought on a proportional representation system (Single Transferable vote).

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2010/08/09/45s587510.htm

I clearly better check out the lunation prior to the election and the opening and close of poll charts!

Mark

As for the main opposition to the Australian Labor party ie the Liberal party I haven't managed to track down a specific date.

Here are some key dates linked to the formation of Liberal party in 1944:

"At Menzies' invitation, state and federal MPs and delegates from 18 other bodies met in Canberra from October 13-16, 1944, for a "unity conference" of non-Labour organisations. The name "Liberal" was adopted, and the new Liberal Party was formally constituted at another conference in Albury on December 14-16." The Macquarie Book of Events, 1983 p 349.

Liberal party historians dont seem much the wiser on a specific date:

http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhit ... ncock.html

What is clear is that the meeting in Albury in December 1944 was the decisive catalyst for the formation of the party:

The Liberals left Albury in December 1944 with a provisional federal executive, a draft constitution, a vague set of principles, and boundless vitality. Within nine months they managed to launch six state divisions, approve and implement a federal constitution, hold a federal council meeting and elect a federal executive, form 761 branches and enrol some 94 500 members (of whom probably a majority outside of South Australia had no previous party membership), establish and finance a federal secretariat and, in August 1945, formally launch the Liberal Party of Australia.

Interesting though that the party wasn't officially launched until August 31st 1945 in Sydney Town Hall. In the absence of anything better I will therefore use a chart cast for this date as a chart for the party.
Mark

Mark,

1824 saw the first European settlement in Brisbane.

In reference to Manfred Cross if you google him there is a you-tube of him talking about the first Manisfesto of the Labour Party - the 1892 date I posted refers to this.

The Tree of Knowledge has long been associated to the beginnings of the Labour Party. On hot, dry and dusty days in 1891 the sheares may well have stood in it's shade sharing and discussion opinions and making plans.

Julie K

Hi Julie,

1824 saw the first European settlement in Brisbane

.

Thanks. Incidentally are you from Brisbane and/or a Queenslander yourself? You seem to know a lot about Queensland!

In reference to Manfred Cross if you google him there is a you-tube of him talking about the first Manisfesto of the Labour Party - the 1892 date I posted refers to this.

I took a look at the You Tube video. Thanks. He describes it as the Manifesto of the Labour Federation of Queensland. If you are discuusing the formation of Labor parties in the states/colonies there is no denying 1891-2 is a pivotal time. However, I still stick with my pedantic point that in a strict sense there was no unfication of political activity on a federal level until 1901. The caucus meeting of Australian State Labour party MPs led directly to the formation of the Federal party on May 8th 1901.

The Tree of Knowledge has long been associated to the beginnings of the Labour Party. On hot, dry and dusty days in 1891 the sheares may well have stood in it's shade sharing and discussion opinions and making plans.

True. But many treasured historical incidents turn out to be myths.
What is a fact is that two historians: Peter and Sheila Forrest, spent nine months of intensive research on the subject during 2009. They were commissioned by Barcaldine Regional Council in Queensland and ultimately concluded there is no evidence the shearers even met under the tree during the strike of 1891. Still, it was a long time ago. The actual participants are all dead and without a written record we can never know for sure. Maybe the story is a verbal survival of the memory of the actual participants. Whats clear is that the moment is a powerful part of Australian Labor party and Labor movement identity and mythology.

Mark

Mark,

I dont disagree with your pedantic point of 1891-2 as a starting point.

We will never know the exact time and date. The Manifesto is an important document that can be refered to as the only written and recorded words ' available' of those times, Sept 9, 1892 - you can download it in it's original form.

Julie K

I dont disagree with your pedantic point of 1891-2 as a starting point.

Actually my 'pedantry' was in proposing a chart after Australian Federation!

As I have already stated there was no national Labor party in Australia before 1901. Others are welcome to disagree but as I see it the chart for May 8th 1901 I have already displayed is the closest we have to a Federal Labor party chart at present.

We will never know the exact time and date. The Manifesto is an important document that can be refered to as the only written and recorded words ' available' of those times, Sept 9, 1892 - you can download it in it's original form.

I accept its very interesting historically. Although as this was only the Manifesto for Queensland I am not sure it can be seen as the operative time for dating the formation of the Australian Labour party as a whole. I understand why Labor party supporters want to date their party back to this time but as I see it the modern Labor party only properly came only into existence following Federation. However, I suppose if you want to trace things back to a seed moment this might to useful. It really depends how influential the document was on other colonial Labor parties and the eventual constitution of the Federal Labor party.

Anyway, interesting as this is I hope to move on to look at some other charts for the election in my next post.

Latest polls suggest a recovery for Labor after a poor start at the beginning of the campaign. The Liberals seem on target to win seats back from Labour but it doesn't look like being enough to form a government with their coalition partners :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 5904655651

However, as the former British Prime Minister, Harold Wilson once said: 'A week is a long time in politics'.

Mark

Mark,

Labour says 'Too close to call a result of this Federal Election' atm. It is a confusing situation indeed for all. Two last Labour PMs popping up on TV cameras as well as Julia really doesnt help - one doing his best to hinder and the other to supposedly help.

Looking at the 6.00 pm Canberra chart as a Horary: Asc @ 3/58 Pisces Moon @ 21/11 Cap. with the last contact a SQ - indicates blocked energy - before moving into the next Sign could the outcome be delayed by 9 days?

Mark, I sent you a pm a few days ago.

Julie K

It occurs to me we have two possible charts for close of polls. Its 18:00 Canberra time (AEST) However, polls close two hours later in Western Australia Should we go for 18:00 AEST? In which case its still 16:00 in Western Australia and voting will still be taking place there. Should we locate the close of poll chart to Perth? On balance I think its logical to time the close of poll chart for when the last ballots are cast in Western Australia but located for the Federal capital of Canberra. That times the close of poll chart for 20:00 (Canberra time) What do others think? Either way, I will dispay both charts.

Here is a map displaying the Australian time zone clock and times in different cities:

http://www.worldtimezone.com/time-australia.htm

Handy to check if you are phoning someone there!

Below is the close of poll chart discussed by Julie above. I will offer some analysis myself later on the second chart.
The second possible close of poll chart is below. I would suggest the Uranus on the Ascendant and Pluto conj MC more accurately picks up the likely dramatic themes in this election. This chart rather reminds me of the UK close of poll chart earlier this year although this time the Saturn-Uranus opposition is across the ASC-DESC rather than the MC/IC. Whether Labor or the Coalition pull ahead it seems inevitable the old politics is in for a big shake up. Pluto reflects the power struggles ahead. With the Green party almost certain to hold the balance of power in the Senate all parties will need their support to pass legislation. An especially, frustrating scenario for the Coalition if they win by a knife edge in the House of Representatives. The Greens want tougher action on industries like Mining, Forestry and Coal mining. They will also be negotiating for proportional representation in both Federal lower house elections and local government.

Hi
This is an interesting thing [close of polls] as this is only the 3rd election held in winter. Most are in spring, and summer. So voting trends in the eastern states will be available simultaneously as all on the same standard time whereas in spring/summer there are 5 time zones instead of 3 so patterns take longer to discern. Voting closes nationally 6pm AWST.
If you look at chart for polling day, close of polls, there is a venus-mars conj and nobody talks about it, but this is an election of gender. Aust is still very much a 'blokes' world and regardless of the lip service paid, the gender issue is there. The polls reflect the confusion of the electorate which is evident in the Aries Ingress Neptune conj Asc but more importantly it also features in the close of poll chart set for Perth. The Neptune in a different sign to Asc and opp Sun. Another point, both Prime Ministerial candidates are 'unelected' and so they are more competitors rather than challenger & incumbent.
We shall see.

maisgar wrote:

The polls reflect the confusion of the electorate which is evident in the Aries Ingress Neptune conj Asc but more importantly it also features in the close of poll chart set for Perth.

Quite frankly, neither the chart adopted by Julie K or yourself for the close of poll seems right to me. Lets iron this out once and for all. The polls close at 18:00 AWST right? So when its 18:00 in Perth its already 20:00 in the capital Canberra using AEST right? Firstly, Julie K is basing her chart for 18:00 AEST located for Canberra. However, we know the polls dont close for another two hours after this in Western Australia. So the operative time for close of polls from a national perspective , located to Canberra is actually 20:00 not 18:00. Secondly, you suggest relocating the chart to Perth. While its undeniable the last voting takes place in Western Australia Canberra is the location of the Parliament and all government institutions. Locating the chart to Perth makes no sense to me at all. As I see it if you are assessing the federal result rather than just the result in just Western Australia the chart has to be located for the federal capital Canberra.

Mark

I thought some of you might be interested in this discussion of the Australian Federal Election in the horary thread. Unfortunately, I missed it until now.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 5707#55707

Mark

Mark,

The polls close @ 18.00 in the Eastern States and 20.00 in Western Australia. I would not locate the chart to Perth - it has to be where the seat of Government is located, Canberra, ACT - I'd never suggest anywhere else.

The Eastern States hold the bulk of the votes while Western Australia the lesser, but none the less important. We will see the swings firstly in the East within an hour or so of polling boths closing then 2 hours later for the West.

So I would look at the chart for 18.00 to give an indication as the count begins - this result is actually in the boxes - then the 20.00 for the WA closing of polling booths as counting continues when the fuller result is ?n the boxes'. Both will yield results. Both parties will loose or gain seats and with the Green Party gaining on preferences I think we may be in for a late night.

The reason for most of the confusion is the actual 'readiness' of the public forced to go to a Federal Election now as deposed PM Kevin Rudd's term did not reach the expected fullfillment of 3 years.

I would not base my vote on gender at any time.

Julie K