Hi Tom!

Thanks for your thoughts. It's true that it is much harder to identify titles as well as authors. But it was supposed to be partly a strategic guessing game, and not so much a test of knowledge. The strategy side would become more apparent if more people took guesses, potentially eliminating more titles, of course. So far this hasn't happened very much.

I also thought that it would be easy enough for people to look up titles of authors in the library meta-search sites such as COPAC and OCLC (aka Worldcat), as linked to above, so that even when they don't know the titles by particular authors, they can find out which ones exist in libraries.

We'll see how this pans out for the first time, and whether the additional clues presented in the second and third weeks make much of a difference or not.

It was not supposed to be easy the first week. To get three points would be equivalent to hitting the jackpot. Even half a point would be creditable at the end of a round, though nine points are potentially at stake.

But I'm beginning to think that the rules are too complicated for people, so after this first round we could simplify them.

For example, I could present both quotations from each book, and also the year clue, in the first week. This way, there would only be two possible scores: one point or half a point, rather than anything from half to three, and the round would only last a week instead of three weeks. It might be that it is simply too difficult until the third week anyway. The one advantage of the present system is that if people are not afraid to make guesses to eliminate possibilities, it then becomes much easier by the third week than it would be if that was the only week. But it seems in practice that people are being very cautious to commit themselves.

I must emphasise again however that this is not a test. It's a bit of fun with the potential for strategic game-play and, I hope, some educational value, both in the inherent content of the extracts chosen, and in the ultimate identification of works.

Philip

PS: I do have another couple of ideas which could make the game easier and more playable; please let me know what you think, Deb, Mark and Tom, as well as anyone else who might be interested in playing under certain circumstances:

1) A list of 36 works could be pre-nominated by author and title. During the course of a ten-round tournament, thirty of those thirty-six works will be featured (three per week). The other six will be red herrings. Each round lasts only one week. Two extracts per book are presented, together with a date clue. Each player has just one guess.

2) No list of works is pre-nominated, but each round, which also lasts just one week, not only are two extracts and a date clue printed per book, but also the first letter of the name of the author (or pseudonym, if applicable) is given. Again, each player has just one guess. The author and title must both be answered correctly to get a point.

These are both alternative set-ups which would make it easier to guess by vastly narrowing the range of possibilities. But would it become too easy? Thoughts welcome!

Well, it has been a week. So far, the following books have been nominated:

For Extract 1: no books nominated yet; Alan Leo suggested as an author.
For Extract 2: Sepharial 'Primary Directions Made Easy' nominated.
For Extract 3: William Lilly 'Christian Astrology' nominated; Sepharial 'Manual of Astrology' nominated; Vivian Robson 'A Student's Textbook of Astrology' nominated.

I regret to inform you that none of the books so far nominated for Extracts 2 and 3 is correct. So all three books have survived identification into the second week. Nonetheless, the field of possibility for books 2 and 3 has been reduced by virtue of the bravery of Deb and Mark in nominating titles. It could have been reduced a whole lot more if more of you had joined in! But never mind. :-)

For now, persisting with the original format of the game just for this first round (as indicated previously), but without prejudice to possible major simplifications thereafter, we must have second extracts from all three books presented. Let's see if these raise any eyebrows or unlock any further guesses!

1b. "Yes", said Saturn, after greeting Luna with a cordiality somewhat uncommon to him, but somehow the atmosphere of Aquarius seemed to draw him closer to nature, and now that Luna had referred to the very subject upon which he was meditating he showed considerable more delight than his naturally cold, distant, thoughtful disposition was accustomed to display. "Yes, it does seem as though these folks on the earth had become so imbued with the idea that each individual is master of his own destiny that it is impossible for them to see the truth; and such beliefs some of them do hold! Why, just think of it, over a thousand different religions and the advocate of each really thinks his is the only true belief! They should know that there is but one religion and Nature is its God. We must teach these denizens of the earth that although we planets are to-day the supreme rulers of the universe and that these mortals are absolutely obeying our commands yet it is within their power to make us obedient to their will."

2b. It is in the fulfillment of a sense of sacred obligation to his fellow men that the closing volumes of this work are presented to the minds of thoughtful people as a help in working out their mission by the exercise of free will actuated and prompted by the all-powerful God-like spirit of love and kindness. For ages the destiny of the world, aye, the universe, has been mapped out in the sky, but there have been few of mankind pure enough to interpret the handwriting of the Supreme Ruler. We may only realize through pain and sorrow, that we alone are the builders of our own future and the rulers of our own destiny.

3b. A few words are not remiss by stating that, at the present time, the subject is outright abused and prostituted by people who never saw the inside of any high school or college, but who, nevertheless, although unable to compute an accurate horoscope, sit down and "diagnose" (?) pathological conditions therefrom. We have innumerous examples of such "diagnostic" farces and quote just three. One was made by a man with only seven years' public school education, way back in the late eighties, who diagnosed from a position of Saturn in Virgo, afflicted by the Moon and Mars that there was a "congested stomach condition present, resulting in periodic headaches" and this man prescribed a remedy which would make a cow laugh. He does not know that Virgo rules the assimilative system. The next case is that of another "astrologist" who, upon inquiry by the prospective bride as to the potency of the groom in regard to children, received the following answer: "The enclosed chart shows that your fiancee is absolutely barren, etc." The woman married that man and has now five children in less than seven years. The third case, which was turned over to the proper medical authorities for action, shows how greed eclipses conscience. This is a case of "diagnosing" pathological conditions and prescribing cell-salts. There is a large profit in this "game".

*****

Some big clues for you all there. Any more for any more? :-)

Hello Philip,

Its quite clear to me I have never read any of the books you have selected! However, a bit of willd guessing never did any harm I suppose. The third book seems to be about medical astrology. I dont think by the wording it can be by 17th century authors like Saunders, Blagrave or Culpeper. Moreover the reference to 'high school' is a distinct clue its an American author. I will take a stab at The Encylopaedia of Medical Astrology by H.L. Cornell.

Mark

Hi Mark! Thanks for being spirited and having another go! That's a very intelligent guess I have to say. Can't reveal whether or not it's correct until Tuesday evening unfortunately, since there are still some days left for others to put in their guesses!

Do you have any thoughts about the two alternative formats I suggested a few messages ago for the game? Clearly present participation rates are too low (with only moderators of Skyscript having taken part at all so far) and the only reasonable deduction from that which I can think of is that the game is too difficult as it stands, in the first two weeks at least.

Already I'm thinking of modifying this trial run so that in the third week, starting Tuesday evening, there will be two final clues: not only a date clue, but also the first letter of the author. However, I think that in future it might be more satisfactory to present these clues together with both extracts all at once and forget about the whole suspense lark, for want of a better way of putting it. What do you think?

I'm even considering throwing in the towel as quizmaster after this first round and handing over to you and your own preferred format for the Mystery Text idea you had before, Mark, whatever that may consist of exactly!

I'm even considering throwing in the towel as quizmaster after this first round and handing over to you and your own preferred format for the Mystery Text idea you had before, Mark, whatever that may consist of exactly!

No need to lose heart Philip! Its early days yet and these things need a bit trial and error. My own idea was much less organised than yours. I thought of just one book/text being used to simplify things. The person posing the text could just give clues along the way in response to comments. Additional selections could be offered as you have done. I would be less into the points and rules and focus more on the fun of the process. Think of my approach as more jazz improvisation versus your more classical style! So quite similar to the mystery chart rules on the traditional forum. I think part of the issue is also this being on the news, books section as not everyone checks here. If Tom has no objections I think this might do better in the traditional forum. However, my library is no match on yours ( is anyones? ) so I doubt I could find much to keep the regulars guessing for long. Still maybe a few easy ones would do no harm to get things warmed up.

Mark

Well, it has been two weeks now, and only one further title has been nominated.

I have to inform you that, Mark, your nomination of Cornell's 'Encyclopaedia of Medical Astrology' for Extract 3 is...
... (cue over-the-top pastiche of post-Chris-Tarrant-influence British game-show artificial suspense injection)... you'll have to wait until after the six o'clock news to find out! Don't touch that remote! We'll be back at 7!

(Two hours later...)

... unfortunately incorrect. It was a very good guess, though, and narrows the field of possibility yet further!

Rumour has it that Bamber Gasgoigne (or would that be Jeremy Paxman in this day and age?) has now been constructively dismissed by the show producers as a result of low audience ratings. But look, they have now drafted in the legendary Bob Holness for the final week! Over to you, Bob!

"Fingers on the buzzers. Let's play Bookbusters!

1. What 'H' (by surname) wrote a book, published in the first decade of the 20th century, containing the aforementioned extracts 1 and 1b, for half a point? And for another half, can you name the book?
2. What pseudonymous 'A' wrote a book, first published in the second decade of the 20th century, containing the aforementioned extracts 2 and 2b, for half a point? And for another half, what was the full title, please?
3. What 'G' (by surname) wrote a book, published in the fourth decade of the 20th century, containing the aforementioned extracts 3 and 3b, for half a point? And for the other half point, what was its title, please?"

Hmm, well, it was an attempt to move things on a bit from the overly rule-oriented style into something a bit more free-form jazz-like, but suffice it to say that I think Mark can do that a lot more naturally than I can!

PS: I realise that some of the internal references to British popular television culture above will have non-UK-raised Skyscript members a little non-plussed, and apologise for this. The clues and texts should still be universally equally accessible, however. The rest was merely presentation. But in case a little bit of elucidation would be helpful, Bamber Gascoigne and Jeremy Paxman were successive hosts of the long-running, difficult game-show for university students called 'University Challenge', while Bob Holness presented an easier general knowledge show for 16 to 18-year-old 'A'-level students called 'Blockbusters', whose characteristic feature was that the players were always assisted by the first letter of the answer being given with each question.

Hello, Steven! Very good to read from you. I was very sorry to read in the recent archives of this board about your serious health troubles in the early summer, and hope you are feeling much better now and taking good care of yourself! At the time of your illness, I was away from the online world and not active on Skyscript, so I missed the opportunity to add my voice to the chorus of well-wishers at the time, for which I'm sorry.

Yes, I've been living in Sweden for the past five or six years, and have a daughter who was born here, so I very much intend to stay!

Thank you for your suggestion of Hazelrigg. I agree he is a good fit to the clues for Part One, and also think he was one of the more intelligent, serious thinkers around in the early 20th century astrological scene. I certainly enjoy reading his work very much myself.

Rather than leave you waiting the best part of a week, perhaps I should take a tip from Mark and respond to suggested answers as and when they arrive from now on. On that basis, I'm sorry to say that Hazelrigg was not in fact the author of those particular words this time! But it was a very well thought-out guess. The author I am looking for in answer to extracts 1 and 1b is a relatively obscure character whom few will be familiar with. He does make for some delightful quotations, however, I hope you'll agree!

Best wishes,

Philip

Hmm, well, it was an attempt to move things on a bit from the overly rule-oriented style into something a bit more free-form jazz-like, but suffice it to say that I think Mark can do that a lot more naturally than I can!

mmm I think that was my self flattering way of covering up the fact I am too disorganised and absent minded to follow the rules.

Time's up for this trial run. The sources were as follows:

1) and 1b) 'The Supreme Rulers' by J. A. Houghton. Published by Henry J. Drane, Ltd., London, 1908.

If you had that one figured out, please accept my congratulations. It is truly one of the more obscure British astrological works of the early 20th century, using the device of an extended dialogue between planets playing in character to illustrate selected facets of astrology.

It is often mistakenly described by booksellers as a work of fiction or even a 'bizarre astrological fantasy'. This, truly, it is not. It is a work of astrological teaching and presentation, albeit clothed in a very unusual style.

2) and 2b) 'Science and Key of Life Volume VI' by Alvidas. Published by Astro. Publishing Company, Detroit, Michigan, 1910.

This one some of you might have worked out by the clues I gave. 'The closing volumes of our work' was a big clue, and the pseudonynous 'A' should have nailed it for you if you knew your early 20th century astrological authors. But fear not if you didn't, since this was never meant to be a test, but rather a direct invitation into the partial experience of certain astrologers' words and thoughts on their own merits before they were identified.

3) and 3b) 'Introduction to Anatomy and Physiology of the Human Body and a Guide into the Realm of Astro-Pathology' by Henry J. Gordon, M.D., M.A., N.D., Ph.D. h. c., Professor of Astro-Pathology and Mathematics, First National University of Naturopathy, Newark, N. J., U. S. A.; President National Astrologians Association of America, Inc. (among other honours). Printed by the Author, 1937.

This was a tough one. Cornell was an excellent guess. Gordon was a close associate of his and even wrote the preface to the posthumous second edition of Cornell's Encyclopaedia. I discussed Gordon's work in general terms in a strand in the Books page not so long ago, but this was a taster from it.

*****

I realise that I set the difficulty level too high in this selection of works, but thank you all for your patience and interest, and I hope if nothing else that the extracts chosen awakened some interest in these authors and works.

For now I would like to hand over to Mark and his Mystery Text concept. I think, Mark, that your less formal way of running things would in fact work better, so please don't put yourself down about that. You have sold me on it!

Thanks Philip,

Sorry we were clearly not up to your level of knowledge. Interesting process though. It will be good when your website gets running. These people would probably be totally forgotten otherwise. How does Gordon's book rate on a practical astrological level to Cornell?

I am interested to hear 'Alvidas' came out as one of the authors. I recall Vivian Robson quoting this source a lot in his book of fixed stars. Who actually was Alvidas? Which one of his works discusses fixed stars?

For now I would like to hand over to Mark and his Mystery Text concept. I think, Mark, that your less formal way of running things would in fact work better, so please don't put yourself down about that. You have sold me on it!

I have something in mind. Its not exactly simple but I plan to provide helpful pointers along the way. However, I would rather run it on the traditional forum as I think more people look in there.

Hello

Philip, sorry I couldn't contribute but I want you to know that whenever you mention these less well known works I always find your descriptions of them fascinating. It may not seem like much but you're doing a good service even just peppering this forum with their titles and descriptions.

I really like hearing about them even though I can't afford to seek out copies and buy them. It still opens things up to hear about them even in snippet form. I appreciate that it must take you time and effort to write about them on here, and just wanted to let you know that it does have a ripple effect and it is appreciated even if it doesn't seem like it at the time. So thank you for stretching and extending my/our familiarity with these texts.

Regards

H.