Skyscript Astrology Forum

I always thought that perhaps there had been much simpler solution to account for twins rather than Harmonics. Harmonics require much precise time birth calculations. Which are difficult even now a days and there is confusion regarding what constitutes the 'Time of Birth'.

Is it crying?
Delivery? or
Cutting of navel chord?

Perhaps there is a much simple solution. But for that we have to take our mind from the time ascendant theory (which was actually meant for horary astrology).

I propose (and please remember its just a speculation)

What makes twins different?

One of them is eldest while other is younger Or
One of them is a male or other is a female etc.

Lets find out exact degrees and minutes of planets.
According to Whole sign house system one of them should get a chart which has a first house in which sun is located and other moon. And if sun and moon are both in one sign one of them should get Sun/Moon chart while other should get next planet according to following order ...

1. Sun
2. Moon
3. Mars
4. Mercury
5. Jupiter
6. Venus
7. Saturn...

No offense meant and forgive me for speculating...

Hi James

is this something you are still experimenting with?

Yes! I'm still not sure whether rulerships are valid in harmonics/divisonals, even if we get the right zodiac, right starting place and everything.

i had heard that relationships between the planets in the harmonic chart back to the natal chart had some significance.

Maybe one of the most hopeful avenues of exploration is the the concept of vargottama ("the best divison"). This was originally applied to navamsa only, but has tended to become extended to any divisional chart. If a planet is in vargottama, it's in the same "sign" in navamsa and rasi (root chart). There are 12 vargottama places in all, one in each sign. In the orthodox way of counting, starting with 0? Aries, each cardinal sign has the first navamsa (3?20') in the same sign as the rasi. In the fixed signs it's the 5th navamsa (the one in the middle of the sign), and in the mutable it's the last one. If we take 0? Taurus as the starting point instead, as Fagan suggests, we get an interesting parallel with the layout of the South Indian square chart form (in which the signs stay fixed and the ascendant moves around): the vargottama placements are at the end of Aries, the beginning of Taurus and the middle of Gemini (and so on), reflecting the structure of the chart.

There are rules about how to use the vargottama in various predictive techniques that might be worth examining, but here's a simple example of how it can be used (from a forum post) (the qualities of each "graha" - planet/factor - are emphasised when it's vargottama):
"Surya shows leadership.
Chandra shows sensitivity.
Mangal shows physical prowess.
Budha shows speech, communication.
Guru shows intellect.
Shukra shows beauty and will power.
Shani shows forbearance.
Rahu shows the ability to cross all boundaries.
Ketu shows insight and Maths.
Lagna shows Blessings of Longevity."

You write:

when i have looked at these harmonic charts, i am mostly looking at what you suggest and skipping the use of rulerships.. perhaps this is partly due how everything changes if you switch zodiacs anyway!

Remember that not just the rulerships but also the points at which the divisions are made will change when you switch from sidereal to tropical or VV. This is why Addey claimed that some of his data showed patterns when using tropical harmonics (even without using rulerships) which disappear when converted to sidereal. But Addey also recognised that there may well be other new patterns that would appear, if for example one of the galactic nodes was used as the starting point in a sidereal zodiac (intersection ecliptic/ galactic equator - this was what Addey saw as the best candidate for a sidereal reference point).
Graham

thanks graham,

i had forgotten the indian name for that - vargottama, but i could see how it would be a fun idea to apply to any of the harmonic charts instead of just for the 9th harmonic.

you are right that the starting point will completely alter the results. i think this is why getting any worthwhile info off the planets can't be done with rulerships, but perhaps aspect patterns. i suppose i am mostly thinking harmonics, verses indian astrology which i know very little about.

i notice how i will have my mercury in vargottama when i am looking at tropical natal and 9th harmonic, but it doesn't happen when i use lahiri instead of tropical.. obviously where the zodiac starts is important to this concept as well..

i do think these ideas could be valuable for understanding the differences in twins.