Of course only his point of view is not in keeping with the long string of traditional astrologers that are pretty much in harmony and accord when it comes to the topic of aspects, i.e what represents an aspect and what definitely isn't one.

Kepler, who introduced all these additional "minor aspects" was probably too much of a mathematician to be a good astrologer. Lilly played around with them a bit, but I don't remember him using them extensively in his delineations.

Regards,
Goran

Thank you, Goran, I understand. I wanted to get some traditional consensus on the relationship of these two planets and I appreciate your remark.

What's interesting is that they [the planets] have appeared to manifest in a bipolar way, the person would rather feel and be the martian angry energy but knows its extremely destructive and unattractive. So they have to rely on and use the Venus energy to be socially accepted to many.

I knew I'd posted this somewhere in the forum, it was in the horary section. From Bob Zoller:

Now this is a curious thing because a malefic planet such as
Saturn in Leo in poor zodiacal state is a nasty planet. Saturn
in Leo is a troublemaker and is trying to stir up difficulties. It
would like to cause greater harm but it cannot effect its full
nature because it is in a solar Sign and therefore it is, as it
were, very upset and waxed wrath so to speak, but it cannot
really effect as much danger and difficulty as it would like to.

Which kind of sounds a bit like your Mars situation.

Olivia wrote:I knew I'd posted this somewhere in the forum, it was in the horary section. From Bob Zoller:

Now this is a curious thing because a malefic planet such as
Saturn in Leo in poor zodiacal state is a nasty planet. Saturn
in Leo is a troublemaker and is trying to stir up difficulties. It
would like to cause greater harm but it cannot effect its full
nature because it is in a solar Sign and therefore it is, as it
were, very upset and waxed wrath so to speak, but it cannot
really effect as much danger and difficulty as it would like to.

Which kind of sounds a bit like your Mars situation.

Yes, very nasty indeed, but at the same time harmless! Perhaps Mars is a necessarily caged animal? I think Venus does benefit them being in the first house (arguably a joy to me) to "assuage" the personality--the person would probably be worse off and shunned by many people without it!

Ray

Venus in 1 or 10, especially if it's on the angle, will usually bring popularity - I've seen that happen regardless - even in the charts of many of the talentless yet famous, and a few of the talented and famous as well. But it's going to express in a corrupted state. Triplicity and a good aspect from Jupiter could go a long ways towards helping that.

Also what you were saying about Venus and personality Liv', it seems that we could agree with the hypothetical notion Venus angular attracts love no matter what , but if corrupted, in a corrupted manner.

Not necessarily harmless - but hampered and extremely debilitated.

I say not harmless because this is the ascendant ruler, after all, so we'd like to see it in better zodiacal state and able to see the ascendant.

I've also seen a number of 'not harmless' Saturn in Leo charts. Granted, it's worse when angular, but even not angular it still can correlate with a great deal of distress for the native.

Mars is in Merc's triplicity, yes? What kind of shape is Mercury in? I don't think triplicity is near as powerful as rulership or exaltation, but if Mercury is in reasonable shape and sees the ascendant, that might be the best approach to life in general the native could take, at least as much as possible. I'd like to see SOME ruler of the ascendant in aspect to it, at least.

Venus and Mars.
Ted Turner - mutual reception in detriment. angular vs cadent.
time AA
Mariah Carey mutual reception in detriment. time not known.
Source - Astrodatabank.

-deleted.
Duplicate post.

pankajdubey wrote:Venus and Mars.
Ted Turner - mutual reception in detriment. angular vs cadent.
time AA
Mariah Carey mutual reception in detriment. time not known.
Source - Astrodatabank.

Is there any statement attached to this information? Not being condescending, I'm genuinely interested!

Ray

Olivia wrote:Mars is in Merc's triplicity, yes? What kind of shape is Mercury in? I don't think triplicity is near as powerful as rulership or exaltation, but if Mercury is in reasonable shape and sees the ascendant, that might be the best approach to life in general the native could take, at least as much as possible. I'd like to see SOME ruler of the ascendant in aspect to it, at least.

Mercury (joying) in first house is aspected by the benefic out-of-sect Moon in Cancer in the ninth house. I've heard pretty good things about Moon and Mercury aspecting. It is in term, as well. That seems like pretty decent shape. Oh, it is also an angular trigon lord, which is nice.

Mars is in Mercury's triplicity, yep.

Now this is a curious thing because a malefic planet such as
Saturn in Leo in poor zodiacal state is a nasty planet. Saturn
in Leo is a troublemaker and is trying to stir up difficulties. It
would like to cause greater harm but it cannot effect its full
nature because it is in a solar Sign and therefore it is, as it
were, very upset and waxed wrath so to speak, but it cannot
really effect as much danger and difficulty as it would like to.

Unusual delineation of Saturn in his detriment, to say the least. Going against the basic principles of traditional approach I'd understand if it referred to an accidentally debilitated Saturn lacking the ability to express its malice. But that it cannot really effect as much danger and difficulty as it would like to because of its detriment...?
And how do we know that this kind of Saturn isn't causing so many problems as it should? What's the criterion for measuring it, so to speak?

On another level, I've often encountered good looking people whose charts had ruler of the 1st in the 7th or ruler of the 7th in the 1st. This position of Venus may signify that partnership in general is very prominent in native's life and that partners are in abundance(water, fertile sign of Scorpio) and come easily to him/her.
At the same time, the angular position of the ruler of the 12th in the 1st isn't good, much less the simultaneous position of the 1st in the 12. It brings the theme of enmity, self-undoing, sorrow, disease, afflictions to the fore which are probably closely intertwined with the partnership in general(Venus ruling both the 7th and the 12th houses).
Now this is very roughly speaking, because all the other factors weren't taken into account.
This person probably had/will have most problems during firdar periods and sub-periods ruled by Venus and Mars.

Goran

I think (not sure) that Bob got that from Bonatti, but I don't have the entire collection of Bonatti's works, so I can't check - and also have no way to get in touch with Bob.

Obviously there are times when Saturn in Leo can be purely horrific - Hitler comes to mind here, but his Saturn in Leo was also conjunct his Mars/Venus conjunction in Taurus by antiscia.

OTOH, Bill Clinton has Saturn in Leo in hayz as well, and like or dislike him, his career wasn't anything near that scale. He has Mars in Libra as well, if I remember right.